Arizona moves to allow concealed guns in bars

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Well I generally don't like prohibitions on carrying in certain locations like bars, colleges, etc. This generally means you have to go to and from the bar or restaurant (and any other location) unarmed.

I support carry in bars and restaurants. Just rely on people to act like adults.
 
Yeah, I'm sure I'll be really glad when I get mugged and killed that I was unarmed because I had a beer.
 
I thought Arizona was breaking new ground here.
Hardly. Plenty of states allow permit holders to carry in bars and restaurants, whether they drink or not while there, and you don't hear of cartoonish gunfights breaking out.

Irresponsible gun toting drunks don't pay attention to the law anyway so restrictions on carry for permit holders in establishments that serve alcohol for consumption on the premises accomplish nothing.

Permit holders aren't the folks you have to worry about, especially when their permit is on the line.
 
Hardly. Plenty of states allow permit holders to carry in bars and restaurants, whether they drink or not while there, and you don't hear of cartoonish gunfights breaking out.

Irresponsible gun toting drunks don't pay attention to the law anyway so restrictions on carry for permit holders in establishments that serve alcohol for consumption on the premises accomplish nothing.

Permit holders aren't the folks you have to worry about, especially when their permit is on the line.

I believe that 38 states allow carry into liquor serving restaurants. Hard to believe that Arizona isn't one of them.
 
In CO, No problem with it. Have carried many times in bars, restaurants that serve alcohol, night clubs etc. Never had a problem.

As long as the CCW holder is not drinking no problem.

Oh, CCW holder also needs to be sure not to let the people he/she is with pull him/her into a bad situation. Know when to walk away and go home.
 
I haven't seen this posted yet. I'm curious what you all think about this. If you were a bar owner, would you allow Concealed carry in your place?

Absolutely not! I've already seen too many ventilated ceilings and gun shot wounds from booze muscles. Leave the machismo and hardware out the door.
Their are the three "B's" that are the downfall to man, Booze,
Bucks and Broads. I'll add a fourth, Ballistics.
 
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Everywhere there seems to be a knee jerk reaction that CCW holders are all of a sudden get loaded and proceed to shoot to slidelock. Sheesh the bill criminalizes drinking while carrying! Right now it would be nice to be able to take responsibility for myself and family while in a restaurant instead of being a criminal by carrying by present laws.
 
While the comparison isn't exact, as driving a car isn't a right, I think it may help understand the problem if one suggested that bar patrons should not be allowed to drive their cars to the establishment. After all, drinking and driving don't mix, and the presumption that all bar patrons imbibe to excess is correct, right?

I believe in "loss of normal life" sentencing for drunk driving, and a similar penalty for negligent use of a firearm while drunk.

I know it's not that easy, as it does complicate things if you perform a "good shoot" against an assailant while drunk. Nevertheless, I believe people should be presumed innocent of wrongdoing until they commit the wrongful act.

Way too many gun laws assume the opposite. (A classic one is prohibition of carrying a handgun for self-defense while bowhunting. Some states recognize the folly of this, but most assume you are going to use the gun for hunting, illegally. And, for many years, carrying a loaded handgun was prohibited in National Parks and other NPS-adminstered lands. Same argument - you're going to use it for poaching.)

Edit - I'm aware that National Park carry is still against the law, until Feb 2010. However, a lot of administrators think the new law is nuts, as they believe possession will automatically lead to misuse.
 
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Is there some projection occuring here? I've lawfully carried concealed firearms into bars. I've lawfully enjoyed many a beer while doing so. Never have I become drunk or done anything which I wouldn't have done if I had not been drinking.

Are some of the people here unsure if they could conduct themselves in a lawful, appropriate manner after one or two drinks? And why do these people think that their lack of self-control should be translated into a law which diminishes the freedoms of more responsible individuals?

I carry a gun for self-protection because I don't want to be killed, or otherwise seriously harmed. Going to the type of bar that will very likely feature a sudden fistfight/brawl is detrimental to my entire premise of self-protection, safety, and smart decisions, whether I take a gun or not.

If you don't trust yourself to conduct yourself in a reasonable manner at a bar, don't take a gun.

If you don't trust the other patrons of the bar to abstain from killing or harming you, don't go in the first place.

Either way, don't diminish my rights because you're insecure or otherwise incapable of making reasonable decisions for yourself.
 
The bill gives bars discretion to keep gun-toting patrons out, and anyone with a weapon would not be allowed to drink. But the bill has angered bar owners who believe booze and guns are a recipe for disaster.

If I owned an establishment that served alcohol the idea of an honest person with a weapon wouldn't be an issue. However, the moment that person ordered a drink s/he would be asked to leave and never return. But then I have a low tolerance for the use of alcohol under any circumstance and fully believe DUI should be a capital offense.
 
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This whole dustup over guns' in bars and drinking has me shaking my head in disbelief. In Nevada, you can drink while armed and you can't even be cited for being drunk until your BAC is .10! We don't have problems with drunken shootouts in bars. I asked my local sheriff if he'd ever arrested anybody with a CCW that was both armed and drunk, and he couldn't remember any incident. There's a lot of fear mongering going on here that is just absurd...
 
If you don't trust yourself to conduct yourself in a reasonable manner at a bar, don't take a gun.

Better still, don't go to bars if you can't behave, since irresponsible behavior will most likely have a bad outcome even without a gun present.

And no, AZ isn't breaking new ground; TN passed a similar law just this past month.



J.C.
 
I believe you should either be permitted to have a gun or drink alcohol (to the point of legal intoxication), but not both at once. Carrying in a bar (or other establishment that distributes alcohol) I have no problems with even if you have a couple drinks; but if you are intoxicated you should be strictly forbidden. :)
 
First, it is about friggin time that AZ got this passed. Brewer had better sign it into law and not pull a Ja-No and veto it.

Second, the argument of guns + alcohol has good points on both sides, but I would like to point out the following common sense thinking:

-CCW permit holders for the most part, by nature seem to be cautious, responsible, law abiding, attentive people. (There are exceptions like in anything, but we are talking about the vast majority)

-Because of those attributes, I don't think you see on a regular basis, CCW permit holders frequented bars, restaurants, or popular watering holes/cantinas, and then proceeding to get as sloshed as they can.

-If that were the case, why don't you see the usual predictions of "bloodbaths" and "old west shootouts" happening in states that already allow people to drink and CCW?

-Bottom line: with the sheer number of permit carriers now in existence, you will have an incident at some point where someone is drinking, perhaps to excess, and makes a poor decision, that costs them plenty. But it will be far more rare, than the usual number of other incidents, non-gun related, that happen all the time at bars and restaurants, around this country.

It is about time that I can now LEGALLY carry a concealed weapon into restaurants when I take my wife and children to dinner. I'll never understand the moronic, idiotic, ignorant, stupid, dumb, and illogical rationale of people that think once a person with a CCW permit and weapon crosses the threshold from their car, the sidewalk, street, or some other boundary where it is legal to carry and they have done no harm, but then entering into a "school zone", "bar", "restaurant", "post office", "airport" or some other "government building", they immediately go into killer mode and become a danger to those around them. It is asinine and I will never understand it. :banghead:
 
Idaho treats guns like cars.

You can go essentially anywhere with it, including a bar. Just don't get caught above .08% BAL.

We have ZERO trouble with this. There's no evidence that legal CC in a bar is a problem.

I think it can be a very bad idea to drink and carry (possible civil suit, anyone?), but why should I have to worry about whether a "grill" is really a "bar", or whether I can go to the restaurant restroom through the bar with my gun?
 
I get drunk once in a while.
Piss me off when I'm drinking...
I might shoot your ass.
(Not really, I don't handle firearms when drinking)...

I see no reason why non drinking people should
have to go into restaurants unarmed.

If I get stupid.. well let the non drinking let me know.
If I pull a pistol over an argument about who won the World Series...
SHOOT my ass. :D
 
In a restaurant that serves alcohol, CCW is fine with me. I use the 50% to define restaurant from a bar. If 50% or more revenue comes from booze, it's a bar to me. In a bar though-I don't like it. I have gotten into too many fights with people in bars to think allowing firearms is a good idea. If you can't legally drive a car because you are drunk, you shouldn't be legally allowed to carry a weapon. I think the .08% BAC should apply to CCW (I think it does in most states).

I know my limits for driving is two 16 oz beers, then I am at .08% and too drunk to drive. I am 5'9 and weigh 220 pounds. I have a high tolerance and don't feel drunk, but legally I am. Tolerance has nothing to do with how fast you get drunk. A drunk guy shooting another drunk guy in a bar is just one more argument for the anti gun folks to take them away.

As per the OP, if I owned a bar-I would ban firearms outright. Bars have too much liability as is-no need to add more. As a former bartender, if I saw someone carrying, I would serve them once, then not again until they got rid of the firearm as I could be held liable for their actions because I served them alcohol. It only came up twice. One guy left and did not return for the night, the other went back to his apartment, stowed the gun and came back.

I am sure that this will make some people on this forum mad, but I am not trying to be a troll. I am merely stating my MHO.
 
Well, it looks like it passed. Hopefully the Gov. will get around to signing it soon.

I have to say, I'm really happy about this. One big reason is that I get around a lot by bicycle and walking, and it really stinks to be armed on your bike, run into some friends who are going to Denny's, and have to say no because you aren't allowed to carry there, and you choose not to drive everywhere to have a portable gun safe.
 
Lots of Denny's serve beer. Sometimes its in a different room than the main dining area, but not always.

That's kind of the point though; there are a lot of places you would be surprised to find out serve alcohol!
 
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