Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Armalite is supporting NY by still selling AR rifles to police. DONE WITH ARMALITE!

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by ol' scratch, Feb 20, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. ol' scratch

    ol' scratch Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2009
    Messages:
    1,382
    Location:
    South of Hell....Michigan.
  2. CraigC
    • Contributing Member

    CraigC Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2006
    Messages:
    15,274
    Location:
    West Tennessee
    How about this, let's not act like "them" by running on pure, unfiltered emotion??? It doesn't help our cause.
     
  3. ol' scratch

    ol' scratch Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2009
    Messages:
    1,382
    Location:
    South of Hell....Michigan.
    And not saying or doing anything DOES help our cause? I am not being unreasonable here. I just won't spend my hard earned dollars to support them anymore. I will also make sure I tell them so at Perry this year. Better yet; why didn't Armalite tell LEO's in New York to "Just get a shotgun" like Joe Biden told the rest of America to do?
     
  4. Derek Zeanah

    Derek Zeanah System Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2002
    Messages:
    8,384
    Location:
    Statesboro, GA
    Personally I didn't think the CEO's follow-up was all that clear. I"m also not willing to judge at this point.

    However, I'm sort of, kind of in the market for a .338 Lapua, and the Armalite AR 30a1 and the Barret MRAD are both in the running. When it comes down to decision time, corporate policies will make it into the decision making process. Might not rank as high as cost or feature set, but it matters in the current political environment.

    In the gun market, business decisions can quickly turn into political decisions, which can have an adverse effect on business. See S&W's preemptive capitulation under the Clinton administration and its effect on sales. (I'm not saying anything bad about S&W -- they have new owners now and I like the company. Same with Ruger, by the way.)

    Businesses need to stay aware of how consumers are responding to these sorts of issues. It needs to be in their calculus, just like it's in ours.
     
  5. HoosierQ

    HoosierQ Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2008
    Messages:
    2,568
    Location:
    Central Indiana.
    I guess I don't see how a company like Armalite selling to an LEO organization is helping the other side. The cops didn't make the law.

    I think the only way a gun company would be helping the "other side" would be to refuse to sell an otherwise lawful product to civilians.
     
  6. Cee Zee

    Cee Zee member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2012
    Messages:
    3,297
    I see it as a problem Hoosier. It's "us or them" time in America and if they're going to deal with the enemy they won't be dealing with me. It took me 15 years to get over what Bill Ruger said. That only happened because the assault weapons ban that he had a huge hand in crafting was finally over. Now look at where we are. The stuff Ruger said and did is still biting us on the rear. People often wonder why I don't like Ruger products much. I don't drag politics into every conversation but that's always in the back of my mind. All those so called "evil features" were constructs of the great Bill Ruger. Gun grabbers didn't know enough about guns to even dream up that list.

    In short you just don't know how much damage siding with the bad guys can do in the long run. So I take names at times like this. If they support the state of NY and their gun grabbing policies then they are no friends of mine. I did finally buy a Ruger because my wife wanted it. I like many Ruger products but I never owned one until my wife had to have one when we went looking at guns for her (the LCP of course). It's a fine gun. The MkII pistols are great as are many other Ruger products. But I won't be buying any. I'm back to thinking Bill Ruger is Satan himself just to be honest. What he did set the cause back 100 years IMO. He gave the left their list of features to cry about. So when we are no longer able to buy mags that hold more than 10 rounds, thank Ruger and tell me again how great that 10/22 is.
     
  7. ApacheCoTodd

    ApacheCoTodd Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2011
    Messages:
    4,609
    Location:
    Arizona
    I get the "good for the goose, good for the gander" perspective and would like to think maybe they're not taking orders but filling existing ones.

    Keep in mind that no-one comments on the Police buying newly manufactured select fire weapons which have not been available the the NY citizen for several decades as well as you and I.
     
  8. InkEd

    InkEd Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2009
    Messages:
    2,575
    Location:
    Parts Unknown
    We have in the past but it is beating a dead horse.
     
  9. carbine85

    carbine85 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2007
    Messages:
    2,139
    Location:
    Southwest, Ohio
    Armalite is getting slammed over at ar15.com All of the manufacturers are a bunch of <deleted>. They are going to sell to whom ever they can. Why is Armalite still in IL?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 20, 2013
  10. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2002
    Messages:
    23,648
    Location:
    Los Anchorage
    Did any Chiefs or Sheriffs in NY stand up and protest this law? How many actively supported the mobsters in Albany? I haven't seen much evidence that they're anything but part of the criminal syndicate running that state.
     
  11. Skylerbone

    Skylerbone Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2010
    Messages:
    3,495
    Location:
    Hawkeye East
    There's no need for foul language here Carbine. While I don't often rush to judgement I do agree with ol' scratch that silence speaks every bit as loud as words, particularly under fire. Would everyone in line for PMAGS wait it out if Magpul hadn't taken their stand against Colorado? The House amended the Bill to exclude manufacturers and yet Magpul said no. Any infringement on the Citizens of Colorado was an infringement they would not be part of.

    Armalite has more to loose than most considering the bulk of their offerings are the very products being demonized. I say isolate those States that subvert our rights and let those who voted to ignore the Constitution reap what they sowed. Imagine if no one would sell ammunition to any Government agency.
     
  12. CraigC
    • Contributing Member

    CraigC Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2006
    Messages:
    15,274
    Location:
    West Tennessee
    You guys do understand that these companies have to make money or they do not stay in business, correct? Personally, I think shooters are way too busy-body on this issue and have WAY too much to say about how businesses conduct themselves. Real easy when it ain't your money. We do business with companies whose politics and policies we don't agree with. Why? Because business is business and politics is politics. If you're smart, you'll leave one out of the other. Unless you're independently wealthy and can afford to burn half your bridges. We're not, we can't, we won't. I don't blame Armalite for getting every penny they can get while they can get it.

    Unless you want people in YOUR business?
     
  13. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2007
    Messages:
    34,113
    Location:
    Central PA
    If true, there are a lot of other companies out there making weapons at least as good. Send them a note, tell them, how you feel, perhaps even include some of the press releases and public statements from our FRIENDS, their competitors, who apply the "good for the goose, good for the gander" standard.

    Every company is free to do business as they choose to.

    No-one is free from the CONSEQUENCES of their choices. Make sure they remember that.

    As a customer, or potential customer, you have a say in how a business conducts itself. They do not HAVE to listen to you. You do not HAVE to buy from them. Might as well let them know that their decisions have consequences, however small on the individual level.
     
  14. taliv

    taliv Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2004
    Messages:
    22,280
    it's fairly simple and obvious to me. LEOs are not a special class of citizens. They do not need any tools to perform their work that are not available to the rest of us.

    Saying cops can have something that citizens cannot is an attitude i find utterly at odds with the principle of liberty.
     
  15. CraigC
    • Contributing Member

    CraigC Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2006
    Messages:
    15,274
    Location:
    West Tennessee
    I agree that the police should NOT have weapons that the rest of us are not allowed to own. With or without a $200 tax stamp(s). I don't mind paying $200 for the privilege of owning a full-auto but I do mind the police having full access to post-`86 automatic weapons. While the rest of us have to pay astronomical collector prices for pre-`86 guns.
     
  16. RPRNY

    RPRNY Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2012
    Messages:
    2,337
    Location:
    Front Range, CO
    This is an NSSF issue. If they cannot as an industry agree to either hang together or hang separately, then several companies with MSR based or biased businesses are indeed likely to be left to hang out to dry. If the industry takes a fragmented "not my problem, I'm still selling " point of view, they add to the diminished sense of social acceptability that gun owner discrimination advocates are trying to build in this country. Every "little " victory for "sensible regulations " that the gun owner discrimination advocates can rack up contributes to their long term goal: diminished social acceptability for firearms ownership. When social acceptability has reached a certain low, politicians can act against the Second Amendment without fear of SCOTUS redress or, eventually, they can seek to amend or abolish 2A. A United front against measures that seem to diminish social acceptability is required.

    Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2
     
  17. jerkface11

    jerkface11 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2005
    Messages:
    5,499
    Location:
    Arkansas
    I bet they'd lock you up if you had a 30 rounder in your pocket though.
     
  18. hawk45

    hawk45 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2008
    Messages:
    193
    Agreed, very poor business decision. I will no longer support them.
     
  19. Fishbed77

    Fishbed77 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2010
    Messages:
    3,039
    I haven't seen any law enforcement agencies in New York state stand up and state that they will not enforce unconstitutional laws like the SAFE Act.

    Therefore, they ARE the enemies of freedom in this case, and need to be grouped in with the rest of our political enemies. They do not deserve to use or acquire any firearms or equipment that is prohibited from any other taxpaying citizen.
     
  20. CraigC
    • Contributing Member

    CraigC Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2006
    Messages:
    15,274
    Location:
    West Tennessee
    It's not a business' responsibility to stand up for YOUR rights as an individual. No matter the nature of the industry. Particularly when it represents an economic risk to them.

    Like with every other discussion of this nature, we have people who have no clue what it takes to run a business, especially in such a politically volatile industry, thinking they should be able to dictate how another runs theirs. Sorry but this is no more or less disgusting than what I hear from the other side. Shooters hanging their own out to dry over such silly things does FAR more damage to our cause than Armalite selling rifles to NY. Personally, I'd rather see them in business, even if that means selling to NY and CA governments than out of business.

    Here's a question. You run your own business. One of the 20 municipalities you do business with passes a law or ordnance that you disagree with. Are you willing to throw away your business with them over this? What if it threatens your relationship with the other 19? Or do you continue to feed and clothe your family with their money? IMHO, the idealism goes out the window when it's YOUR business, YOUR livelihood and YOUR family that will suffer because of YOUR principles.
     
  21. Skylerbone

    Skylerbone Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2010
    Messages:
    3,495
    Location:
    Hawkeye East
    So let them be without principle? That's no answer. Allow me to pose a question: how would you feel if they came out with a statement that commercial sales will forever be suspended in accordance with the wishes of John Kerry? Would you still support their position, albeit without financial gain to them?

    There is no harm in being an informed consumer and voting with your dollars. Those who speak loudly for freedom will be remembered in my choices as the John Hancocks of this fight.
     
  22. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2007
    Messages:
    34,113
    Location:
    Central PA
    Yeah, I can't see a firearms company, who makes by far most of their money from sales to civilians (and/or who wishes to retain that very lucrative market) not feeling the pressure here to do whatever they can to encourage, stand up for, make a statement of solidarity regarding the fundamental right of its customers -- when that very right is why they are in business to begin with.

    If they want to be only a government contractor, hey, that's their deal.

    But they are a publicly visible entity operating in a hotly controversial field. Anything they do could affect sales one way or another.

    If they choose not to make this stand -- which has been established by other firms at least as far back as Ronnie Barrett and CA back with the .50 Cal ban -- then that makes a statement which their civilian customers will react to. If they choose to make this stand and refuse business to government agencies in certain states, that may as well affect their future sales with the government (and with the people, as well!).

    They may wish neither side cared what they do, but that's not how the world works, so they have to make some choice.

    If they will not stand with us, some of their competitors have said they WILL. Those folks who care will then shop with those competitors, not ArmaLite.

    That's one of the tough realities of doing business.

    Honestly, I love to see gun companies succeed, but if some need to suffer -- for their own decisions -- in order to show that the American citizen has a voice and demands their rights, that's a price I'm willing to see them and the industry pay.
     
  23. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2002
    Messages:
    23,648
    Location:
    Los Anchorage
    It's the business' responsibility to keep our business if they want our money. Their decision to work for the enemy can and should have consequences. I would hope Armalite comes to the right decision here.

    We're trying to punish them if they DO business with the other side. So if they want to stay in business, they should do the right thing. NY should be forced to live under the same laws it imposes on its subjects.

    It's also important to keep the businesses from going over to the other side like S&W once did, or Bill Ruger before that. This is a war. Thankfully being fought with money and political pressure now.
     
  24. CraigC
    • Contributing Member

    CraigC Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2006
    Messages:
    15,274
    Location:
    West Tennessee
    I didn't say operate without principle but principles and idealism are very easy when YOU have nothing to lose. It's very different when you're running a business with employees. You're not only responsible for YOUR family but for them as well. Here's another question, would you be okay with your employer making a business decision based on politics if it meant your job?

    There are ways around this issue without throwing the baby out with the bathwater but nobody seems to care. I would sincerely hope that everyone crying "lynch Armalite" does everything in THEIR power to protect THEIR rights. Are you? Or is everyone just hanging with the lynch mob because it's cool? Do you apply this idealism to your own life, or do you hold others (who have more to lose) to a higher standard? Gee, who does that sound like??? :rolleyes:
     
  25. CraigC
    • Contributing Member

    CraigC Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2006
    Messages:
    15,274
    Location:
    West Tennessee
    Yes, S&W is a really good example. They were hung out to dry just as is suggested here for Armalite. Only problem is the lynching has lasted far longer than those who made the decision that got them lynched. The folks who signed the agreement, to save their business, are long gone but the hate lingers.

    Same for Ruger and what people hate Ruger for was a lie to begin with. Just as now, the industry was fighting for its life, under attack from government sponsored lawsuits. Bill saw the 10rd magazine limit as a compromise to save his company and the industry. For his effort, the ban was passed anyway and the media twist his words and that is what the hatred for Ruger stems from. So much so that people still hate Ruger for what they 'think' a dead man said over a decade ago.

    Another unanswered question, what did YOU do to combat the government sponsored lawsuits against a lawful industry? Anything? Anybody contribute to the NRA-ILA or the gunmakers' defense funds? Anyone??? Or did you do as you're doing now, just sitting back, bitching and moaning about what somebody else should do?

    Like I said, all this idealism is real easy when it ain't your money. We can fight the other side without turning on ourselves. Which is exactly what crap like this is. Sorry but what you think is standing up for a principle makes you sound like "them".
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page