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Armat M41A Pulse Rifle

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by GunnySkox, Sep 29, 2005.

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  1. GunnySkox

    GunnySkox Member

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    Hi, everybody!

    Since I've posted about them a couple times in the last few days, I've suddenly acquired a fresh taste for my very own, working, Armat M41A (air-cooled, electronic pulse action...) rifle (though, obviously in .45 ACP, instead of 10mm HEAP, and 12 gauge, instead of 30mm). Yes, I'm eighteen. Yes, I know I won't be able to SBR/AOW anything until I'm 21. Of these things I am aware. Still, it's a fun project to work on in the meantime.

    So, to the end of making a working one, I'd be much obliged if y'all fellow THRers would assist me in gathering the following:

    Big, clear pictures of Tommy Guns. Preferably the M1A1 and the new Auto-Ordnance replicas of the same. Also, if possible, documents that include the specifications and dimensions of the Thompson.

    As above for the Remington 870

    That one website that has the Full Disclosure on the construction of a Prop M41 (the one I'm talking about links to a place that sells kits to make an M41 out of a demilled M1A1/replica)

    Place that sells SPAS-12 parts (specifically, that metal cage around which the forearm wraps, and the forearm)

    detailed assembly/disassembly instructions (preferably with pictures) For the 870 and the Thompson; especially of the former's stock (like, how it attaches) and action.

    An explanation of how the the telescoping CAR stocks work, and how H&K's A3 telescoping stocks work.

    Thanks in advance, folks.

    ~GnSx
    Also, please no derision of my nerdiness or my intense, lustful desire for the M41, or the impracticality of the idea. If you want to make fun of me, PM, IM, or Email me.
     
  2. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

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    I have a clear memory of somebody actually doing this a few years back. Certainly if you do a search here and on TFL you can find home-made versions of the famous Aliens rifle. The biggest problem with making a working version is the shotgun, which would have a barrel too short for NFA standards. You'd have to make it longer. ALso--I don't believe the over/under aspect of the thing ever functioned in the prop or CAN function in a replica. There's no receiver for the shells to move through and get elevated up. My suggestion would be to just hang the shotgun and make it a FLARE gun single shot with a dummy magazine underneath.
     
  3. GunnySkox

    GunnySkox Member

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    I think you might be right. I found some specs on this guy designing a replica, and the grand total length of the Grenade Launcher portion is 13.63". However, one of those crazy Super Shorty Mossbergs by Serbu is only 16.5" long, total. So if "we" (by which I mean me) are willing to loosen up ever so slightly on the exacting specifications, that might work (which would result in a somewhat longer Thompson barrel, which MIGHT be long enough to prevent having to SBR the Thompson). :D

    ~GnSx
     
  4. Slateman

    Slateman Member

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    Ummm . . . whats a Pulse Rifle? :confused:
     
  5. GunnySkox

    GunnySkox Member

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    The M41A was the rifle the majority of the Colonial Marines in ALIENS carried.
    [​IMG]
    Bam.
    If I had my Tech Manual with me, I'd quote from it.

    ~GnSx
     
  6. Correia

    Correia Moderator Emeritus

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    Gunnysox, you are worried about this bunch making fun of your gun-geekery? :D Not much chance of that.

    Overall cost wise, you may want to take a look at having the shroud fabricated for you, rather than trying to find a SPAS cage. The SPAS is pretty overprice, and parts are rare. I would think that you could bend a piece of sheet steel into the right shape, and cut the holes yourself. Probably a whole lot cheaper.

    Same thing with the HK stock. The stocks by themselves are running $200-$300.
     
  7. GunnySkox

    GunnySkox Member

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    Well, I don't "plan" on actually buying an H&K A3 stock, I just wanna know how they work, to get concepts for how the M41's stock ought to work. Speaking of getting parts made, does anybody know much of anything about Emachineshop.com? I thought it was a pretty slick concept when first I heard of it, but I've never heard anything else about them.

    I can see this turning into a Mechanical Engineering project down the road (down the road especially because I'm about 3 years too early to be doing SBRs and AOWs and such). :D
     
  8. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

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    You could also rig up a sort of compressed air spud gun to fire faux "grenades" out of the thing.
     
  9. GunnySkox

    GunnySkox Member

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    "Yes, thou evil trashcan, now that ye have tasted twenty rounds of forty-five caliber death, shalt thou feel the wrath... Of the 25mm super ball! *thwoof! poink..*"

    :D

    ~GnSx
     
  10. Dionysusigma

    Dionysusigma Member

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    :rolleyes: :D

    Staying within the limits of the NFA is going to be impossible if you wanna do it right. Also, realize that the 870 is only going to have a capacity of 1+1. The magazine, unless you figure out a way to have it bend back on itself, is going to be limited to 20. Building a working counter, while entirely do-able, will never reach 99.

    That said, when you get it finished, POST PICS! :D I've always wanted to do this, but I'll have to go with either the Smart Gun or the automated turrets. Semi-only, of course. :( ;)

    http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg29-e.htm

    http://www.sibg06210.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/DVC00191.JPG

    And, something that might help a LOT... :)

    pulse1.png
    Click for full-size
     
  11. Justin

    Justin Moderator Emeritus

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    THE CHAIR IS AGAINST THE WALL
    If you actually are able to build a working version of the M41A Pulse Rifle, with a working counter, that would be truly cool!

    To do it right, the shotgun and Thompson would both have to be registered as NFA weapons.

    I'd be curious to know from some of our more knowledgable members:

    Since the shotgun wouldn't have an actual stock, would that make it an AOW where you would only have to pay the $5 tax, or would you have to pay the $200 tax since it's attached to the rifle which has a stock?
     
  12. RRTX

    RRTX Member

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    $200, the rifle stock becomes the shotguns stock making it a SBS
     
  13. MudPuppy

    MudPuppy Member

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    I thought an AOW tax was $200 first time registering, then $5 for transfering?

    But, the law does its job in confusing the citizens and I have no firm understanding.
     
  14. GunnySkox

    GunnySkox Member

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    I already knew about the 20-round magazine limit, and about the counter. That might be more of a pain in the ass than it's worth (seriously, if you can't count to twenty, you need to tighten up), though incredibly cool.

    Dionosy... nosy... not gonna work here anymore, anyway, [/Office Space]

    I never expected to avoid the NFA. Having a two-foot long shotgun attached to the front of the magwell of a 2 and a half foot long rifle seems even more unwieldy than a heavy Thompson with a shotgun stuck to it, plus all sorts of plastic/polymer shrouds and aluminum/steel cages and stuff.

    With regards to completing said M41A, and pictures, it's.. ah.. gonna be a pretty good while. I'm eighteen, so NFA items are a distant thought, and even when I'm 21, it'll be... expensive (An Auto-Ordnance thompson is 700-1000 bucks, an 870 + gunsmithing + NFA expense would be, like, 500-700 bucks; having all the "Adaptation" parts and stuff constructed, molded, and all that jazz, would be... steep.)

    ~GnSx
     
  15. GunnySkox

    GunnySkox Member

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    Additional thoughts: Concerning SBRs and such, the way I'm thinking right now, the "concept" may call for the barrel lenght just being 16-16.5" on the rifle. Short barreling both of them would be a pain in the hindquarters, and would cost even more. Additionally, the added length could simplify some of the construction, and would allow the 870 to hold a shell or 2 more (addl 4" or so of barrel & mag tube)

    ~GnSx
     
  16. goon

    goon Member

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    I would check on the Serbu option too. If they can make those short mossbergs as AOWs, maybe they could do an 870 that way too. If you changed the dimensions... just a little creative license here and there....
    Maybe you could make it work without too much ATF involvement (and cost).
     
  17. Kurush

    Kurush Member

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    Shorties are AOWs because they don't have a stock, this thing has a stock. Also the making tax for an AOW is still $200.

    It seems to me that this thing would be way too front heavy to actually play with, you'd probably have to cantilever it to your shoulders to keep it up :p

    (this coming from a guy who's currently trying to build a 1919 kit ;) :eek: )
     
  18. GunnySkox

    GunnySkox Member

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    Yeah, I'm expecting it to be pretty freakin... weighty. I knew there must be an actual reason for giving the M41 a collapsible stock.. and that's so it feels like you're holding a dumbbell against your shoulder, instead of a dumbbell on a stick.

    That said, I picked up emachineshop's mildly retarded CAD software, and I'm gonna learn how to use it, so I need recommendations on materials (especially on ways to keep weight down, and stuff that'll be rigid enough to connect the shottie to the Thompson and keep everything nice and rigid).

    The shrouds have to be some kind of tough plastic. Emachineshop offers all kinds of good stuff, so I need to know what y'all know on a tough, moldable plastic, maybe like the stuff they usually make AR handguards out of (but I think that's fiberglass or something. Either way, gotta be tough and moderately lightweight).

    Also, with respect to keeping weight down, does anyone know anything about the practical differences between the "Normal" Auto Ordnance M1's and the "Lightweight" ones? The latter have their receiver made out of some lighter-weight alloy, but does that adversely affect their durability, reliability, etc.?

    ~GnSx
    "This is my rifle... er.. well.. there ain't many like it, but it's STILL mine, so bug off!"
     
  19. ZenMasterJG

    ZenMasterJG Member

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    Am i the only one whos first thought was that that grip angle looks pretty uncomfortable?
     
  20. 3rdpig

    3rdpig Member

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    No matter how you go about this when you're done you're going to have a very heavy, very expensive gun that's no where near as effective as a good M4gery or semi auto AK. Cool? Sure, but not very practical or effective.

    Here's a suggestion. Why not build yourself a good M4gery or AK, then build your pulse rifle lookalike using airsoft stuff. It will look just as cool, weigh a ton less, cost a heck of a lot less and be much more fun to play with. After all, this is a toy we're speaking about, not a real assault rifle. Plus you'll have a real AR for any defensive needs or to take to the shooting range.

    I bet you could have both, M4gery and an airsoft pulse rifle lookalike, for less than what you're thinking of doing.
     
  21. PaladinVC

    PaladinVC Member

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    I say go with airsoft and a flare gun. Just as good-looking, and flares are way more entertaining than shotgun rounds when you're shooting cardboard xenomorphs.
     
  22. GunnySkox

    GunnySkox Member

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    Grip angle - seriously. The "modified" angle on the Pulse Rifles (as compared to a normal Thompson) looks a little skeevy. Might just have to OD-green a normal thompson handle and put those little side cuts in it.

    M4Gery/AK instead:

    A) I don't want an M4gery. If/when I get an AR-15, I'm looking to get a 20" A4 pattern rifle.

    B) I won't want a semiauto AK. I'm going to get an SKS or two soon, and that's all cool, but it's not what I'm making plans for, here.

    C) I don't partic'lar' care much about how useless (combatively speaking) or heavy making this thing will be. The fact of the matter is that I'd really, really like to figure out how to build a semiautomatic M41A (in .45 and 12 gauge) that works, and is the coolest thing ever. Making it an effective combat weapon is a pretty much unrelated concept to building a working replica of a gun I saw in a movie with which I am deeply enamored.

    D) A cool airsoft does not a happy gun-nerd make. An airsoft M41 can be cool all it wants, but it ain't what I'm going for. So if you'd like to link me someplaces that'll help, or offer up some data on materials, or some good advice on building/ordering/machining stuff, I'd really appreciate it, but I've really got my inner nerd set on an M41A that goes "BANG!" and "BOOM!" (though, hopefully, not "ka-BOOM!").

    You have your dream-toy, I have mine.

    ~GnSx
    "Shut up! Whatever! I didn't wanna go to Sally's House anydangway!"
     
  23. Texfire

    Texfire Member

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    I've been looking into Thompsons lately and the weight difference is pretty negligible between the regular and lightweight receivers, given that they are pretty weighty guns. IIRC the normal weight is 13lb and lightweight is 11.5lb. A pound and a half difference would be more impressive in a lighter rifle. On the other hand, with all the extras you are going to be adding, it might make a difference.
     
  24. LaEscopeta

    LaEscopeta Member

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    A couple of sources for ready made under barrel mounted super short shotguns:

    http://sageinternationalltd.com/si/wepmod/wepmod.html
    Scroll down to: "Development of the MM12 was prompted by the necessity for an individual to provide himself and others with multiple capabilities in one, easily man-portable package. The MM12 reduces the Remington Model 870, 12 ga. shotgun to its smallest practical size (see NINJA-12 above) and mates it's door breaching capabilities with the individual's standard weapon. This modification fits the Colt 723, M4 and 9mm SMG." Seems like these guys will sell to the public, if you get your BATF paper work. It might me a little long for your purposes.

    The company who developed this one:
    http://www.olive-drab.com/od_other_firearms_shotgun_lss.php
    did so under a US Army contract, that might prevent them from selling to to any one else. They don't list on their web site:
    http://www.cmore.com
     
  25. iapetus

    iapetus Member

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