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Armed bystanders halt shooting spree that left 3 dead, including suspect, at Louisiana gun outlet

Discussion in 'Strategies, Tactics, and Training' started by Aim1, Feb 20, 2021.

  1. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    Shooting spree left 2 dead. Then the shooter was killed.

    There was no luck involved in armed people being at the location, lol.. It is a gun store and gun range. The employees are armed and you can expect customers to be armed.

    https://apnews.com/article/us-news-...ie-louisiana-d2688cf8a0471ba3a035547b89e4645b

    Sounds (so far) like the guy went in and murdered 2 people and tried to flee, but was caught outside when the fight occurred.
     
  2. Phaedrus/69

    Phaedrus/69 Member

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    Sounds like a real mess! I guess the takeaway is to be on your guard and aware of your surroundings as best you can at all times.
     
  3. gyp_c2

    gyp_c2 Member

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    Oh, you mean like Wallywerld, MickeyDeez, etc...
    The last few years, manners have largely disappeared...
    Nowdays half the country hates the other half for NoKnownReason...
    So yeah...I noticed.
     
  4. Speedo66

    Speedo66 Member

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    From the article: "There is probable cause to arrest the 37-year-old suspect for first-degree attempted robbery, second-degree robbery and the attempted theft of a firearm, Murphy said. Further charges may be filed, she added, as he is a felon prohibited from possessing firearms and the car he was driving was stolen."

    You know some relative is going to blame the person who shot him and say the usual: He was just about to turn his life around, was the beloved father of several children from unrelated affairs, and was thinking of returning to school for his GED on his way to becoming a doctor. There was no need to shoot him and whoever did should be charged with a crime.
     
  5. Speedo66

    Speedo66 Member

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    What, are you unfamiliar with trained attack parrots?
     
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  6. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    Um, well.... until now, yes. :)
     
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  7. wiscoaster

    wiscoaster Member

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    I found it rather odd that even the "free" media (OAN) seemed to miss the point that intervention by other armed individuals prevented the shooter from killing any more people.
     
  8. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    Well, the shooter was in and out of the shop more than once. He had engaged with employees, exited, then re-entered and was NOT being engaged when he killed the 2nd person. Apparently, employees had taken cover and not realized he had re-entered the store, according to the LEO giving the briefing (see twitter clip in link below)
    https://www.lawofficer.com/louisiana-police-release-shocking-video-of-deadly-gun-shop-shooting/

    HERE IS THE LONGER VERSION...
    https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/l...ting/289-aaa820df-9301-486f-a747-dd9c16734482

    Shooter was a CCW permitee

    Critical point to remember, just because the threat APPEARS to flee (he left the store) DOES NOT MEAN THAT HE IS NO LONGER A THREAT OR THAT HE WILL NOT RE-ENGAGE.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2021
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  9. mjsdwash

    mjsdwash Member

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    Yea, and the guy who shot him thought the same thing, he waited far longer than you would expect, with a crazy person swinging a hammer, and breaking a glass gun cabinet.... still waits until the guy has him pinned, and is jumping the counter. I'm happy he had patience. This county only has a few decent shops, really only 1 great one, and having one go under fighting a lawsuit is a bad reality. By waiting that long, its going to be a lot harder. On top of that, the attacker lived. This shop is a 3 1/2 minute ambulance ride to the nearest hospital, so overall, this went as good as can be expected.
     
  10. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    Found this also:
    https://www.wdsu.com/article/jeffer...e-shooting-that-killed-3-in-metairie/35585943

    Personally I was very moved by the way the sheriff spoke about the store employees.

    HORRIFIED that the shooter was a CCW permittee -- I have never heard of a permittee committing a crime like this. Can a person have a psychotic break from one moment to the next?
     
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  11. Jeff White

    Jeff White Moderator Staff Member

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    While rare it does happen. A CCW permit is no more of a guarantee that someone is a good person then anything else.

    I'm pretty sure anyone can breakdown. I saw quite a few people who you would never expect to break and become violent in my LE career. Sometimes people just snap.
     
  12. Phaedrus/69

    Phaedrus/69 Member

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    Supposedly CCW holders commit felonies at a rate 1/3 that of police officers. But given the number of each that's still probably a good amount of crimes.
     
  13. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    I know that, but we always see statistics about people with a carry permit actually being more law-abiding than the general population.

    Oh definitely, anyone can break down, but I would expect some kind of behavioral tipoffs ahead of time. So far nothing like that has been reported about this shooter, and the sheriff described his interactions with the gun store employees prior to starting to shoot as not appearing to have been confrontational. Further, the first person he shot was another customer with whom he had zero prior interaction, and an older lady to boot. To me the way this whole thing went down is much scarier than the fact that people got shot.
     
  14. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    What made this weird is that the shooter was there with his brother and brother's kids. The brother and kids apparently were not part of the nefarious activities.

    I know nobody likes VPC data, but you can cross check their information. However, they do list a variety of incidents...
    https://concealedcarrykillers.org/mass-shootings-committed-by-concealed-carry-killers/

    Probably the most famous was the Bingampton, NY shooting (https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna30094954), but also notable was the Tree of Life Synagogue shooting (https://www.breitbart.com/politics/...gogue-shooting-suspect-license-carry-firearm/), Cafe Racer Shooting (https://www.huffpost.com/entry/seattle-mass-shooting-lat_b_1563392)
     
  15. Jeff White

    Jeff White Moderator Staff Member

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    That's a myth. Sometimes people hold it all inside or conceal things that might tip people off because of the reputation or status in the community, then they snap.
     
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  16. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    So sad. :(
     
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  17. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    This is why I asked whether a person can have a psychotic break from one moment to the next, I can't believe a brother would bring his small children in the same space with the killer if he had any inkling that he was going to snap.

    Definitely more on that list than I would have imagined. :(

    I remember the Tree of Life shooting very well but don't remember having read at the time that the shooter was a permit holder.

    I guess it's good to keep in mind that anybody can snap in a heartbeat.
     
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  18. JohnKSa

    JohnKSa Moderator Staff Member

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    Well, after more information (including video) surfacing, it appears that much of the information available at the time I made my first post was incorrect. A good argument for not initially jumping on a story like this and trying to analyze it right away.
     
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  19. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    The sheriff didn't miss it, he devoted part of his press conference to praising the gun store employees' response, it was very moving. So at least the outlets that ran the news conference got that across.
     
  20. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    No, the sheriff didn't miss it, but OAN (right wing news outlet) did not pick up on the citizen intervention as a significant news point, initially, despite the info being reported elsewhere. OAN is very pro gun is why that seemed strange.

    THEN the sheriff had the news conference...
     
  21. Jeff White

    Jeff White Moderator Staff Member

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    Remember which sub forum you’re in. News conferences and which network reported what aren’t really on topic in ST&T.
     
  22. lemaymiami

    lemaymiami Member

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    A few points to consider...

    any armed confrontation is so un-predictable that they're to be avoided at all costs --- if you're able to avoid them...

    People will fool you - a murderous individual may have the demeanor of a choirboy - until the action starts...

    The good guys don't always win - and sorting out what actually happened might have to wait until after autopsies show what weapons killed or injured each participant...

    In my police career I can think of several incidents where most of the injuries were caused by the officers (the old circular firing situation) - and it can happen so quickly that you're actually being shot at - by fellow officers... much less predictable are incidents when ordinary citizens are involved.. Their level of skill, training, and emotional state in a confrontation make any predictions about the outcome difficult to estimate (in other words investigators will have their work cut out for them) and folks with agendas will have too much room to spread falsehoods and accusations about what actually occurred...

    Lastly something not generally known is that any life insurance policy that the shooter might have had... is null and void if he (or she) is killed while committing a felony. As a result there's a very real incentive for family members to claim that the poor innocent shooter was wrongfully killed - while minding his (or her) own business....

    Hope I can spend the rest of my life avoiding this kind of stuff - very bad news for all involved - even when it is found to be entirely justified...
     
  23. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    It would be a myth that the tells are always there. Like you said, they are often hidden. In retrospect of the events, people often mention shooters/killers that gave off numerous tells that something was brewing. The only problem with the tells is that they are often not actionable, often are seen by friends/relatives of the shooter as being venting behaviors or otherwise just "making noise," and are behaviors often seen in the shooter in the past where the shooter didn't later act out.

    How many times in work places, for example, have disgruntled employees made a lot of noise about their disdain for management, their immediate bosses, the company in general, or coworkers that went nowhere? I would say that it is almost commonplace for larger companies to have one or more employees that express some very unsavory things about what they would like to do, but it is nothing but noise and a way to de-stress or feel better about themselves. Almost none would ever do the things they say they would like to do, but once in a while they do, right?

    I don't think most of this would apply to this situation, not from the store's perspective. If the shooter was known to the store as being a problematic person, I don't see where they would have allowed him in or allowed him to stay once they realized he was there. If the brother thought anything was going to happen, he probably would not have brought the children along or been there himself.

    How do you avoid something that is unpredictable?
     
  24. lemaymiami

    lemaymiami Member

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    When you don't like what you're seeing (before everything hits the fan...) leave the area if possible - avoid trouble if you can see it even possibly headed your way. Maybe you find out later that your actions weren't needed - but maybe it went the other way.... Yes, all too often the first sign of trouble is when the shooting starts but sometimes you get a hint of something before the balloon goes up... None of this is easy or certain. How I reacted as a young rookie all those years ago - was completely different than how I acted 20 years later. As an ordinary citizen these past years since I retired out, I"d like to think my antenna are still in place and that I'd act before the shooting starts if I had the slightest opportunity - but it's entirely possible that like most I'd freeze and not believe that someone would actually..... until you're in the target zone - and wishing you were somewhere else...

    What I should have said is that once the action starts the outcome is un-predictable (understatement....) and that I still stand by. The shootings that I've been involved with (usually after the fact thank heavens) at times were all too predictable - but enough of them were so bizarre that if you wrote them into a movie script they'd be rejected as too far fetched -but that's street life in all it's glory...
     
  25. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    The lady who was the first victim was exactly trying to leave the area. Unfortunately, the path she chose led right past the shooter.
     
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