Armed civilian stops mass shooting

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by telomerase, Jul 17, 2022.

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  1. nipprdog

    nipprdog Member

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    hero.png
     
  2. JShirley

    JShirley Administrator Staff Member

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    A lot of this is based on SLA Marshall's claim of how hard it is to kill another human.

    SLA Marshall, despite wide acceptance by the establishment for over 30 years, has been proven a fraud by historians who have checked his so-called research. He dramatically inflated the number of troops he claimed ro have interviewed, and there is no reason to believe he didn't similarly lie about the content of what they said to "prove" his opinions.

    Training. Training. Training. You don't have to dehumanize someone to kill them. you just have to be mentally and physically prepared.

    I don't say this glibly. I am happy that everyone I shot at on my first deployment was at a distance, and I didn't have to go on the battle damage assessment on our biggest engagement, the one with most of the kills. But I don't think for one instant that I would hesitate, if in the appropriate circumstance. Peter Kindsvatter's research as to whether I would be left with PTSD from such an event shows that the major factor would be if I was in genuine fear for my life, not the fact that I killed a human.

    John
     
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  3. Shimitup

    Shimitup Member

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    My uncle served in the Korean War, he told me of walking up on two North Korean soldiers on the trail telling me as they were raising their rifles to shoot he took them both down. I believe this was his first experience with combat. I vividly remember his comment about it being the most unnatural feeling to shoot another human being. Clearly that fact did cause him to hesitate to do what must be done.
     
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  4. rdmercer

    rdmercer Member

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    I didn't read thru all of the comments but has it been determined what handgun this young man used? Or has it not been reported yet in any of media reports?
     
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  5. rust collector
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    rust collector Moderator Staff Member

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    I saw or heard reference to Glocks possessed by shooter and by good samaritan.
     
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  6. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    They aren't wrong. More often than not when a mass shooting is stopped by a citizen (non-LEO/Military), it is one that is either unarmed or finds an expedient weapon to use as a projectile or blunt force object. The reason for this disparity between armed citizens and unarmed or initially unarmed citizens stopping these events is because the armed citizens are so outnumbered by the unarmed. Wrestling or tackling the shooter is one of the most common ways unarmed citizens stop these shooters.

    Why aren't there more armed citizens stopping these shootings? Either they aren't present or they opt NOT to engage. There are apparently a significant percentage of gun carriers that feel very strongly about not engaging a mass shooter or any active shooter unless all other avenues to attain safety are unavailable. Engaging is an absolute last choice for these people. So if they can duck into a store to get away, duck around a corner, get behind cover, etc., that is exactly what they are going to do. You can find numerous posts attesting to this on this forum. In short, you can't count on these people to stop mass shootings, even if they are present, unless they are forced into a position where they have to engage. That is their choice, but the impact of this is that it lessens the likelihood of an armed citizen stopping a mass shooter because many armed citizens do not have this goal.

    Of the engagements stopped by armed people before the on duty cops arrive, it is not uncommon for those people to be off duty cops, retired cops, security guards, or firearms instructors. Additionally, it isn't uncommon for the shooter to have run his routine and stopped shooting before the on duty cops arrive.

    There are cases where the Good Sams do not come out well as a result of their intervention. That is also correct, either being killed or crippled by the gunman or mistakenly killed by the cops.
     
  7. armoredman

    armoredman Member

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    I read the coroner stated the murderer had eight hits on him. I guess this will be a drill to try. I am betting I probably won't do as well. I had heard he started 50 yards away and closed the distance.
    Eli's Nightmare, ten rounds, start at 50, draw from concealment on buzzer, fire at least one round from 50, close to 40 yards, subcompact pistol only. unmodified, and must navigate between three obstacles to simulate innocent bystanders, must score 8 hits on target, 8 rounds on target 1 must be A Zone, total time allowed 15 seconds.
     
  8. General Geoff

    General Geoff Member

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    So this guy, who is said to lack any formal firearms training, not only engaged the target within 15 seconds of the perp opening fire, but he also got 8 hits out of 10 shots fired from a distance of ~40 yards, with a pistol.

    This guy should be in the special forces.
     
  9. ms6852

    ms6852 Member

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    It is so true. Since I only watch the local news, they never mentioned it. I just found out about on another forum.
     
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  10. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    I heard that in that locale if you enter posted premises armed and the owner asks you to leave, if you then don't leave you are trespassing. Otherwise no criminal act.
     
  11. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    shannon watts idiotic comment on the Indiana mall hero.png
     
  12. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    Have I mentioned lately how much I hate going to the post office?
     
  13. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    I heard his grandfather taught him how to shoot.
     
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  14. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    I think I saw 8 of the 10 rounds hit the BG.
     
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  15. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    That's actually very common in cases where the family member was shot in self-defense. I heard one family complaining that their relative was shot after breaking into a house armed to rob the residents, saying "he didn't have to shoot him, he steals because how else he gonna get money to buy clothes".
     
  16. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    That is a great law. Every state should have one like that. Didn't realize that was behind your initial assertion.
     
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  17. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    He didn't just ENGAGE him in 15 seconds, he NEUTRALIZED him in 15 seconds.
     
  18. JShirley

    JShirley Administrator Staff Member

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    This young man is not police or military. definitely not the same thing as "no formal training".

    Also, Special Forces' mission is training foreign groups to be fighting forces, not being super soldiers.
     
  19. CDW4ME

    CDW4ME Member

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    I saw that too.
    8 out of 10 rounds fired hit determined by autopsy.

    Given the exact same accuracy a snub (or revolver) and many pocket guns LCP, Glock 42, PM9, would have been out of ammo - all else equal.
    Some people did not think capacity advantageous when I tried to encourage it in May.
    https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/capacity-yes-please.905427/
     
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  20. Craig_VA
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    Craig_VA Contributing Member

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    Subtle difference between Special Forces and Special Operators. Special operators such as Delta Force and SEAL Team 6 (old names, I know) are pretty much super soldiers. However, the general public tends to consider the two phrases as the same. Further, aren't the Green Berets (Special Forces) considered Special Operators?
     
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  21. stillquietvoice
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    stillquietvoice Contributing Member

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    And be one of the few times that gun crimes are prosecuted vigorously, even after lessening other charges, just because the individual wasn't a gang banger.
     
  22. JShirley

    JShirley Administrator Staff Member

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    yes, Special Forces are part of Special Operating Forces (SOF). So, all SF are SOF, but not all SOF are SF.
     
  23. Speedo66

    Speedo66 Member

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    What are the chances of an unknown 22 year old like that having a legitimate carry permit in NYC?

    Just about the only citizens other than retired police having one are VIP's and celebrities.
     
  24. Speedo66

    Speedo66 Member

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    Where can one find a video of the shooting?
     
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  25. Spats McGee

    Spats McGee Moderator Staff Member

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    I've been looking for it, with no success.

    I keep turning the numbers over in my head and I'm just kind of amazed. 10 shots with an 80% hit rate, under pressure, at 40+ yards. I want that young man on my team.
     
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