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Armed customer stops robbery in Indy

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by El Kabong, Aug 18, 2006.

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  1. El Kabong

    El Kabong Member

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  2. #shooter

    #shooter Member

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    WOOOOOOHOOOOOO!!!! Very nice. +1 for the good guys.
     
  3. AirForceShooter

    AirForceShooter Member

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    and the good guy was named Sherlock!!!
    It just get's better.

    AFS
     
  4. stevelyn

    stevelyn Member

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    Cool story and it's not littered with admonishment from some PR puke about citizens taking matter into their own hands.
     
  5. Maverick7340

    Maverick7340 Member

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    Even though this ended well I'm not sure I would have done the same thing. What if the BG ignored the guy with the gun and jumped over the counter and then had a hostage. Now what do you do.
    There are a lot of things the BG could have done instead of just putting up his hands and waiting for the cops. Sometimes you may think you are doing a good thing but you may make the situation go from bad to worse.
     
  6. Erebus

    Erebus Member

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    I would have shot him when he started jumping over the counter. He would not have had the chance to take a hostage while laying on the floor shot.
     
  7. birddog

    birddog Member

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    Glad things worked out, but I'm not sure if I would have done the same. Or maybe I would. I don't know.

    I think I've lived in NY too long!
     
  8. The_Shootist

    The_Shootist Member

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    Taurus?

    The paper was even nice enough to identify what pistol he carried :evil:

    Moral of the story appears to be that is doesn't have to be expensive to be effective!
     
  9. Erich

    Erich Member

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    I miss Indiana. :(
     
  10. Father Knows Best

    Father Knows Best Member

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    And you probably would have been arrested and charged with murder, and sued for wrongful death by his grieving mother/sister/son/whatever.
     
  11. blinkin357

    blinkin357 Member

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    I'd sit this one out...

    I wouldn't have stepped in at that point though. The law is so strange that I'd be concerned about ending up in jail myself. If his weapon was exposed or if he started to attack someone and I was in a good position, I'd step in myself. I guess I'll never know unless I face similar circumstances.

    If I were Sherlock, I'd be concerned about McMiller coming to get revenge when he's out, which will likely be very soon.
     
  12. DKSuddeth

    DKSuddeth Member

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    the monday morning quarterbacking is alive and well.

    The perp had already put his hand behind like he was grabbing a gun once, one could reasonably assume that he had a weapon (he did in fact have a screwdriver) and by jumping towards the one behind the counter, intended to attack or hold hostage said individual. He would have been entirely justified in shooting the scumbag in the back.
     
  13. carebear

    carebear Member

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    Reasonable man standard.

    He had the necessary proximity to the cashier, he apparently stated his intent to harm said cashier, and he both claimed to have and acted as if he did have (and actually had) a weapon. It seems as if the good citizen was close enough to be aware of all three factors.

    If he moved to attack the cashier, with or without being challenged first, he's DRT, no questions asked.
     
  14. MechAg94

    MechAg94 Member

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    I don't know. You could argue that he was making a move toward the cashier and that you were acting in defense of a 3rd party. I guess it would depend on the circumstances.
     
  15. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

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    What kind of stupid mope is trying an armed robbery on the westside of Indianapolis one of the one heavily armed places on earth?:what: :confused:

    If you see a white male on the westside there's a very high chance he is armed. Perp was whacked out on something.:scrutiny:
     
  16. mindwip

    mindwip Member

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    There was a clear and present danger to the clerk, the BG stated he had a weapon, even went to grab it, and threantened the clerk.

    Try that with your local police when there is a cop behind you, tell someone else to give you there money and you have a gun, see if the cop shoots or not?


    ps i am gald no one got hurt btw
     
  17. straightShot

    straightShot Member

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    I'm glad that it worked out. I'm also glad that an accomplice wasn't planted amongst the customers. That's how the good guy sometimes gets shot in the back of the head.

    I remember that it happened at a dry cleaners near me a few years ago. The good guy, an off duty cop, tried to stop a robbery while in line with his son at a bank. He told the robber to stop, and someone behind him shot him dead in the back of his head.

    Like I said, I'm glad that no good guys got hurt in this instance.
     
  18. Father Knows Best

    Father Knows Best Member

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    It doesn't matter what you or I think is "entirely justified." What matters is what the DA thinks is justified. It may turn out that a jury agrees with you. In the 12-18 months it takes to find out, however, your life has been ruined.

    Shooting someone in the back is always going to look bad. In this case, you MAY have argued it was reasonably necessary as "defense of others", but that argument typically isn't very compelling to a DA or jury when the "others" aren't family members or loved ones, and when no weapon has been displayed. The DA will portray you as a crazed vigilante or Rambo wannabe to the grand jury.

    Do what you want. I'm just telling you to be prepared for the consequences. You may eventually be vindicated, but your life will be hell for 12-18 months and you'll be broke at the end.
     
  19. JohnKSa

    JohnKSa Member

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    You're right and wrong.

    Right because there's a decent chance of this happening in ANY shooting.

    Wrong because in most cases, you are allowed to use deadly force on behalf of another if you would have used deadly force in their shoes.

    If I'm a clerk and a guy tries to jump the counter toward me after stating that he was armed and intended to shoot me, I would certainly feel justified in using deadly force. That would make the third party defender equally and clearly justified in using deadly force regardless of the third party's location with respect to the attacker. In other words, if a criminal attacks an innocent person in your presence, there is absolutely no requirement in the law that you maneuver around until you're in front of them before responding with deadly force. If the innocent is justified in using deadly force, so are you, even if you're behind the attacker.

    Fortunately, criminals don't usually want to die and will generally choose compliance over perforation. And, in my mind, that's another big plus in favor of immediately shooting an attacker who doesn't comply immediately with instructions from an armed defender. If the guy's not afraid of being shot, the situation is dire, and the sooner you start shooting, the better chance you'll have of surviving.
     
  20. JBusch8899

    JBusch8899 member

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    Glad things worked out

    Carl Briezi seems like a pretty decent guy as the Marion County Prosecutor.

    Worse comes to worse if the situation warranted an investigation, fairly present it to a Grand Jury to no-bill the good guy.
     
  21. blinkin357

    blinkin357 Member

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    Not a police officer

    Since I'm not a police officer, it's not my responsiblity to step in based upon my opinions of what MAY happen.

    Years ago, with my first CCW permit, I thought it through ahead of time and decided that I will not step in during a robbery unless the perps are shooting or injuring somebody AND I'm in a position to take action without becoming a clear target myself. Of course, if he's shooting at me, all the rules change.
     
  22. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

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    Grand jury? What's that here, JB?:confused: :D

    All it takes for your life to be ruined here as FKB describes is Brizzi's John Hancock.
     
  23. cordex

    cordex Member

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    Yeah, there are a few armed folks around here.

    El T, in Indiana Code when it says "No person in this state shall be placed in legal jeopardy of any kind whatsoever for protecting the person or a third person by reasonable means necessary." does that offer protection from civil suits after the fact? Or does "legal jeopardy" just mean criminal prosecution?
     
  24. Travis McGee

    Travis McGee Member

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    THis reminds me of the old Dirty Harry movie, where Inspector Callahan is munching a sandwich with one hand, while foiling a robbery with his .44 in the other.

    I wonder if the guy with the Taurs put down his drumstick?

    "I gots to know!"
     
  25. redneck2

    redneck2 Member

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    I'm not a laywer, nor did I stay at Holiday Inn Express last night, but I'd suspect legal jeopardy means just that.....exposure to any legal problem

    remember, Indiana is a very red state. Passage of the Castle Doctrine just made it a lot redder.
     
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