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Armed group searches local ER

Discussion in 'Legal' started by highdesert, Jan 12, 2006.

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  1. highdesert

    highdesert Member

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    A pretty good illustration of the futility of being unarmed among the wolves. The police response was fast (3-5 minutes) but still plenty of time to get killed.

    highdesert

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    Five males, one with gun, invade ER
    Installation of metal detector under review by AVH officials
    This story appeared in the Antelope Valley Press on Thursday, January 12, 2006.
    By BOB WILSON
    Valley Press Staff Writer



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    LANCASTER - Staff and patients at Antelope Valley Hospital got a scare Tuesday afternoon when five males - one of them armed with a gun - began searching the emergency room for an apparent target.
    The five "swarmed the emergency room" shortly before 5 p.m., hospital spokeswoman Jackie Weder said.

    "One had a pistol in his waistband, and they were searching for someone. They were looking at everybody in the ER," Weder said.

    Not finding the subject of their search, the group left, "but one of the five came back, and a nurse said, 'Can I help you?' and then he spouted profanities to the nurse, who then called security," Weder said.

    As security officers responded, sheriff's deputies already in the back rooms of the ER on other business responded as well, she said.

    The deputies "were there immediately, and no patients were ever in danger," Weder said.

    "There was a young lady in the waiting area, and she went to a nurse and said that they were looking for her boyfriend," Weder continued. "The boyfriend wasn't there with her; she just happened to be there on her own."

    At some point, deputies detained three people for questioning, but none was arrested, Weder said.

    "It was very scary for our staff," she said.

    Emergency room director Denise Goodwin said she was not present when the intruders rushed into the facility, but said the incident scared her staff - particularly because the male with the gun made no attempt to hide it.

    The nurse who later confronted a gunless member of the group when he returned "was quite frightened" even though the incident "took just a minute or two," Goodwin said.

    As for the person with the gun, "I think if he had seen who he was looking for, he would have shot him. But I can't say for sure; I can't be in that person's mind," she said.

    "But (the nurse) said they were looking at everybody and there were five of them, so that tells me they were looking for somebody to do something," Goodwin said.

    Lancaster sheriff's Deputy Miguel Torres said officers responded to a call from AV Hospital at 4:53 p.m. and took a report concerning criminal threats.

    The suspect who allegedly made the threats is being sought. He was described as a black male between 15 and 20 who was carrying a gun and wearing a Popeye's Chicken & Biscuits restaurant uniform, Torres said.

    The suspect was believed to have been looking for a particular person, the officer said.

    It was not immediately known if the incident was gang-related, he said.

    Ed Mirzabegian, the hospital's chief operating officer, said Lancaster deputies were there within three minutes and a Sheriff's Department helicopter was searching the area around the hospital within five minutes.

    "I was very impressed" with the response, Mirzabegian said.

    AV Hospital has owned a metal detector for screening people for about six months but has not installed it because a policy concerning its use still is being discussed, he said.

    Questions such as which people should be screened, when people should be screened and whether a screening officer should be armed or unarmed remain unanswered, Mirzabegian said.

    "We are checking with other agencies" about their policies for using such devices, he said. "What if someone who needs care says 'no?' " to being searched, he said.

    "Can you imagine coming in with family members for care and having them all searched?" Mirzabegian said. "And all of this for a couple of bad apples."

    Another question yet to be answered concerns where the device should be placed, Weder said, noting there are a number of ways for people to enter the hospital besides the main door of the emergency room.

    Regardless of the image such a device might give AV Hospital, administrators may have to revisit the issue because of Tuesday's situation, Weder said.

    Although the situation was a first, "It only takes one incident" to raise public concerns, she said.

    bwilson@avpress.com
     
  2. scout26

    scout26 Member

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    Highdesert. Where was this (as in what state ?? I'm guessing PA ???)

    Someone want to explain to me exactly how having a metal detector at the entrance would have prevented an armed indivdual from entering ????

    Hmm, sounds like the cops just need to canvas the local Popeye's.


    Well since they asked the young lady if her boyfriend was there and when he wasn't there, they left....YA THINK ????

    :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
     
  3. highdesert

    highdesert Member

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    It took place in **********

    My favorite quote:

    ---
    As for the person with the gun, "I think if he had seen who he was looking for, he would have shot him. But I can't say for sure; I can't be in that person's mind," she said.
    ---

    She knows something bad is going to happen, then she goes against her gut instincts and says she can't be sure. Just like what the guy talks about in the book "The Gift of Fear."

    I also like the fact that they were less scared of the other guys who were probably, in my opinion, doing a better job of carrying concealed.

    highdesert
     
  4. 1 old 0311

    1 old 0311 member

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    My girlfriend works in a ER. The newer hospitals have panic buttons EVERYWHERE, and armed security on site.

    Kevin
     
  5. Optical Serenity

    Optical Serenity Member

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    Every hospital around here has armed security and a slew of law enforcement always on site.
     
  6. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

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    Oh. Nevermind......
     
  7. LawDog

    LawDog Moderator Emeritus cum Laude

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    :scrutiny:

    Now, if I read this correctly, five individuals - one armed - entered the ER and began searching for someone.

    When they got done with their search, the individuals then left.

    One proceeded to return, at which point he cussed out a nurse.

    Then the ER personnel called for Security/Police.

    Is that about right?

    LawDog
     
  8. pax

    pax Member

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    A metal detector would have helped, how?? The metal detector would have shown he was carrying a gun. Oddly enough, just looking at him did that ...

    Nevertheless, "no patients were ever in danger" because the police were there within minutes.

    How long does it take to pull a trigger? Anyone ...?

    pax
     
  9. Biker

    Biker Member

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    Popeye's Chicken and Biscuits, hmmm? I'm guessin' that it was a professional hit put out on Col. Sanders.
    I can hear the hitman's final taunt just before he pulls the trigger: "What's the matter Colonel Sanders? Chicken? Bwaaahaahaa"
    Biker:evil:
     
  10. Alex45ACP

    Alex45ACP Member

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    $50 says this had something to do with drug prohibition.
     
  11. longeyes

    longeyes member

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    A good indicator of the state of local civilization: the thugs feel emboldened to prowl in medical facilities. If you're not safe in ER, where are you safe?

    Glock 26s for the whole team.
     
  12. molonlabe

    molonlabe Member

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    In my house and probably many THR members houses.
     
  13. cosine

    cosine Member

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    Okay, I've got a Strategies and Tactics question. If you were carrying there, when you saw the guy with the gun in his waistband enter and saw his actions and attitude would you draw down on him and hold him at gunpoint?
     
  14. johnster999

    johnster999 Member

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    The latest in gangsta fashion. All the cool kids will be wearing it soon.
     
  15. middy

    middy Member

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    :eek:

    Biker, that is so wrong.

    :D
     
  16. longrifleman

    longrifleman Member

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    If it ain't a pink gorilla suit it ain't worth talkin about.

    Nope. Move any family out of the way if possible, then move to a flanking position, preferrably with some hard cover and wait. Check your backstop; then check it again. Sheetrock is not armor plate. Then hope you don't have to make the decision wether to draw or not.
     
  17. cosine

    cosine Member

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    Got it. I should have thought of that move myself after reading so much stuff here about scenarios similar to this one. :banghead:
     
  18. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    That's time enough to start writing crime reports; it's not, however, time enough to prevent innocent people from being slaughtered.
     
  19. CAnnoneer

    CAnnoneer Member

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    Off-topic perhaps, but if you ever get pulled into a shootout, wouldn't it be best that it happens in the ER?
     
  20. sm

    sm member

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    As some know I used to work in the main OR of a hospital. The main OR had 19 suites. Of course the ER was easiley accessible.

    Now in AR, State law says no CCW in hosptials, There is also proper signage.

    The hosptial I was employed...

    Here is a scary truth. Not all surveillance cameras were operational. Meaning either not turned on - or if so, no tape. Most security were NOT armed. It costs more money to hire one armed. Now get wind JACO was coming - everything worked.

    There are signs - BIG signs. Sterile Area do not enter. One had to be in scrubs to be in the OR.

    I have had "youths" come into to hosptial, get to OR and come in in looking for someone. I have a in-house portable phone, a plastic box cutter,and that is it. Not a good situation to be in and on knees call security...hiding at 230 am all by yourself back there.

    Now the other hosptials have better security. I did rotations at these and some private facilties. Our Childrens hospital has the best security. I have volunteered there...my ex worked there. Armed, uniformed and plainclothed...all armed.All Cameras work...great security.

    I covered my butt with some folks, then volunteered to show how anyone could get in, how they could get equipment, get into lockers ( including ladies and Drs area) and get drugs. I mean I waltzed in over a weeks time and with folks in security watching out for me, and another group to keep me from getting in trouble...I breeched security - often. My ID was protected.

    My point is - security and cameras keep an honest man honest. If a BG really wants something - he will get it. The trick is to slow him down and make really difficult.

    My old place...if a terrorist really wants to screw the pooch...just take an stolen ambulance into the ER.

    Not the other hospitals for sure not the Children's.

    Anyone in a setting such as this needs to investigate what they really have - not what they are told ,or what "appears" to be.

    I even got into the psych ward. And that is a locked floor. Boy did that shock folks.

    At Childrens, especially with "J Does" - security is tight. You ain't getting a kid,no way.
     
  21. ka50

    ka50 Member

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    shotgun 00 buck behind the counter
    mandatory 20 hour marksmanship training for the personel behind the counter

    case closed.
     
  22. Kim

    Kim Member

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    CCW is not prohibited in hospitals in Arkansas. Private hospitals can ban it however. The hospital I work in does not. I have a lawyer who is to sue any business if I am ever killed on their property if I had to leave my gun behind because of their personal policies. Only way I can keep griping after I am gone.
     
  23. sm

    sm member

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    In an ER / OR one has many things that do not "react well to bullets"...besides people.
    Gases, Oxygen, and add fire , combustions due to electrical equipment and various lines with O2 and whatnot.

    I did use a gurney, throwing saline bottles and chase some folks out once. I mean I had my disposable box cutter and two extra disposable scalpels...damn bat phone went blitz and I was a bit busy to stop and find a phone...and I though I managed to hit a panic button - I knew it most likely was there for show to the public...it was not hooked up...

    Firearms are not the end-all do-all solution to everything.

    Brains and training go a lot further.

    I, like many, did not wear badges around our neck, even with break-away. We just got into too much too quick to have badge get in someones chest.

    Mine was handy, and I had a special hard plastic key to access areas. Like a credit card, only a tad thicker, my was really sharp on two edges...err...just so it would insert better and all of course.

    A Saline bottle ( not the bags) is a really useful tool in case you ever were curious.

    The worst place to try to run into and hurt someone in a OR is the Instrument room. I mean really sharp tools, big tools, saws , hammers and stuff...No biggie to access the ones not autoclaved, I mean I had back up plans...

    Just shared with my graveyard bunch some stuff. Only guy , the rest ladies...except when cases going of course. But I have been in a harvest, and "visitors" come in.
    Had visitors come in with a number of rooms going too.

    One car dumps someone at front door, opposing group comes into ER/ OR looking for this guy...fun times for sure.

    Criminals do not care about signs or regs. Fact.

    Do the Hospital Required fire, security bits - you know for personal record.
    Then get to know Security, get your crew to ask for asssistance and ideas, formulate a plan,get training.

    You have to follow the regs , you must also understand some regs are to cover the employers butt - not yours. Take care of you.

    Many nurses wear knives or in pockets in areas with regular nurses outfits. OR Scrubs were different.

    Oh yes ...the baseball bats in some OR suites, they really are part of the surgeries done in them rooms.
    Really. Just at the time I was not near one of them rooms. Some Drs and such saw a need that all rooms had one...and other areas too.

    Folks would be blown away as to what all goes on in a ER, OR and other areas.

    I took my bat on smoke breaks...I'm a nice guy. Then I got to toting a putter or 7 iron. At 4 am it is okay to practice putting in the Drs lounge...
    Putter or 7 iron less obvious, and folks think you are Dr. *grin*
     
  24. sm

    sm member

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    Kim,
    You are correct. The hosptial I was employed did not allow CCW. I did some rotations in some private clinics that also had no CCW.

    My apologies.
     
  25. mbs357

    mbs357 Member

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    Yes.
    Because the deputies (not full fledged Sherriffs, now) came to the rescue (and long after the fact).
    Yes.
    The whole time the bad guys and the one with the gun was in the ER, no one was at danger at all.
    Because the deputies came out afterwards.
    <_____<
     
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