"arsenal" discovered/confiscated in New Jersey

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carlrodd

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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28919576/

Flames shot into the air as New Jersey State Police destroyed gunpowder found, they say, with a haul so huge they needed forklifts and a box truck to take it all away.

State police seized what they think is the largest cache of firearms and ammunition most of them have ever seen.

It was found in a house, two trailers and even an underground bunker on a piece of property in rural Franklin Twp., Gloucester County, State Police said.

Investigators say they discovered more than 250 guns, a hand grenade and close to 500,000 rounds of ammunition.

“Gun shops don’t have half-a-million rounds,” said Detective Sgt. Mike Peterson with N.J. State Police.

State police say an investigation into two recent burglaries in Salem County led them to the property on Monday.

That’s when police say they encountered the homeowner, 59-year-old Brian Hinkel, a former Vineland Police Officer.

“He tried to slam the door on our detectives and we were able to follow him into the house. He ran into the kitchen and grabbed a loaded handgun off the kitchen counter and our detectives were able to disarm him at that point and place him under arrest,” explained Sgt. Stephen Jones with the State Police.

Hinkel was charged with assaulting a police officer.

Authorities say several guns were visible in the house. After getting a warrant, a full-fledged search began on Tuesday and continued into Thursday.

Neighbor Antoinette Ragone, who saw what police hauled away, was stunned. “I’m shocked and I’m upset because I live here, I have a 14-year-old son, 15-year-old nephew with me.”

State police say the evidence they found connected Hinkel to two men charged with the burglaries. One of those men has been arrested. The other, Peter Monteleone, Jr., is still on the loose according to investigators.

Why would a former police officer have an arsenal like that? “We do believe he had a firearms purchase permit and he was legally able to possess firearms, but whether or not the firearms themselves are legal is a different question,” said Sgt. Jones.

Hinkel was free on Thursday after posting 10-thousand dollars bail. Authorities say the process of sorting and identifying everything they found could take days.



didn't see this posted yet. sorry if it's doubling up a thread somewhere.

same old detail-free reporting from a big news network. as far as the article shows, it seems the assault charge stemmed from trying to defend himself when detectives came to his door? a lot of conjecture on the part of the police....i.e., "we don't know if he was allowed to possess all these." why wouldn't he be? is there some reason the police assume that? no details about why he wouldn't be allowed? supposedly he was linked to two men who committed burglaries. how exactly? or even how at all? again, no details at all from the police.

and of course....the concerned neighbour who has children. what exactly is the importance of her statement? was this "crazy" guy going to use all 250 of his firearms at once? boy, that would be scary. he also had one hand grenade. was it real? was it functional? ONE?.....really? if you look at pictures of this area, it appears to be somewhat if not fairly rural.

this is new jersey after all. the collective mentality of fear and surprise and worry and helplessness there is sickening. then again, maybe this guy was a real danger................or not. i'll stick my neck out and vote on the side of the owner at this point. at any rate, this could be me next. my six guns and 2,000 rounds of ammo(mostly 22) would certainly be considered an arsenal as well, and the media would again provide precious few details.
 
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Fire All Of Your Guns At Once, And Explode Into Space!

carl: "was this "crazy" guy going to use all 250 of his firearms at once?"

Got it in one.

I've tangled with a few other members here over my concerns regarding undisclosed or unregulated possession of certain devices and substances in residential neighborhoods. Probably derives from my heritage. But the QUANTITY only matters if said quantity can enlarge the risk area. For example: yes, there is a difference between a can of Go-ex in your workshop and a half-ton of powder in your shed. But the breathlessness with which the media reports the numbers of guns encountered in a single family home betrays their ignorant naivete. As you suggest, what's he going to do, "Fire all of your guns at once, and ... explode into space!"?
 
“He tried to slam the door on our detectives and we were able to follow him into the house. He ran into the kitchen and grabbed a loaded handgun off the kitchen counter and our detectives were able to disarm him at that point and place him under arrest,” explained Sgt. Stephen Jones with the State Police.

Hinkel was charged with assaulting a police officer.

Authorities say several guns were visible in the house. After getting a warrant, a full-fledged search began on Tuesday and continued into Thursday.

I know there are exceptions to warranted searches, but I'm curious which one they plan on using in this case.

It appears he didn't want them entering his house, then they did, and then they saw several guns visible, and then they got a warrant to search.

Not really enough information to go by in the article.
 
Three things you _may_ have missed: #1: NJ, not exactly clear on the meaning of the Second Amendment, #2: former LEO linked by other evidence to a firearms theft ring, #3: NJSP should have had a search warrant BEFORE they showed up, but apparently didn't so bullied their way into the house and retroactively sought to justify their actions by claiming they saw guns there, etc.

In a just universe, every manjack one of the NJSP who participated in this would be sucking stale air behind bars for the remainder of their natural lives and the State of New Jersey would be replacing every grain of the powder they destroyed, returning his guns and ammo and paying actual damages plus treble punitive damages.

But, this went down in NJ, so whether he was guilty of association with a firearms theft ring or not, this guy has probably breathed his last breath of free air.

Our best hope may be that AlGore is correct and that Global Warming will melt the polar ice caps and put the whole state of NJ underwater.
 
I have to travel to Gloucester County for work occasionally. It is rural, I could almost mistake it for Albemarle County, Virginia. Cow pastures and the like.

PDRNJ is notoriously strict in its draconian ownership laws. Almost all of my family lives in either NJ or NYC, so I've heard some stories. My cousin told me he had to solicit his local sheriff for a permit even to buy a handgun. Too bad it can't go anywhere but his house and maybe the range.
 
Shame on you all! The right of the people to live in a peaceful society transcends any niggling little details such as warrants, self defense and personal liberties. If this person wanted the use of guns and grenades he should have joined the SA where his desires would have properly served the state!
 
well, if he was linked to two burglars, it is possible that they could have all been in on a gun-running scheme. Steal guns and ammo, sell them to crooks who don't have the proper whatever-you-need-in-NJ to easily/lawfully obtain said things. If thats the case, you'll hear more as time goes on. If not, then I'm to assume he'll get his property back.
 
It boggles my mind that someone would spend all that money, time, and effort collecting all those guns, and then use them to commit crimes. There's no accounting for crazy people, though.
 
a lot of conjecture on the part of the police....i.e., "we don't know if he was allowed to possess all these."

a lot of conjecture on people responding to this post, the quote from the article actually says:

We do believe he had a firearms purchase permit and he was legally able to possess firearms, but whether or not the firearms themselves are legal is a different question,” said Sgt. Jones.


NJSP should have had a search warrant BEFORE they showed up, but apparently didn't so bullied their way into the house and retroactively sought to justify their actions by claiming they saw guns there, etc.


There is nothing that says they did or didn't have a warrant. Quite a bit of conjecture there also.

seems the assault charge stemmed from trying to defend himself when detectives came to his door?

Running for a gun when the police are there is a sure way to get your butt in a sling anywhere. Please note they didn't shoot him and they probably would have been justified in doing so.

This is a good example of let's bash the cops because they arrested someone with a lot of guns. Instead of seeing what the outcome of is we'll just say the cops are all wrong. Don't care what the entire truth is the guy who got arrested had guns. We'll overlook his involvement in a B&E ring and just bash the cops. Blame the network for not exactly describing what his involvement was or perhaps disclosure of that information would sabotage an ongoing investigation that would result in recovery of more stolen property and arrests.

These negative responses give antigunners great ammunition. This is a public forum and constantly defending anyone arrested with guns can't do the RKBA cause any good. If it turns out many or all of the 250 guns are stolen and returned to their owners would you still bash the cops?
 
Grizz is right. We should not be defending him because EVERYBODY knows the police NEVER exceed their LAWFUL athority.

Your sarcasm is interesting.

I don't think police usually exceed their authority as you infer. If police usually or often exceed their lawful authority where you live I suggest you contact the FBI as they often make civil rights cases against LEOs.
 
eye5600,

The link you gave shows a story from PA, Beaver Township I think, near Pitssburgh.
 
These negative responses give antigunners great ammunition. This is a public forum and constantly defending anyone arrested with guns can't do the RKBA cause any good. If it turns out many or all of the 250 guns are stolen and returned to their owners would you still bash the cops?

nobody has really been bashing cops. i myself have been mocking the familiarity of the whole situation.....this great synthesis of carbon-copy, fear-mongering media coverage, seemingly arbitrary behaviour on the part of law enforcement, especially in regard to warrants, and cries for temperance and 'walking-on-broken-glass" choice of words from some within the gun-owning community. have you ever been to new jersey grizz? have along conversation with someone who lives there and appreciates personal liberty. it is THE nanny state. i'll side with whoever is on the receiving end of new jersey-style justice as a matter of course.
 
...then I'm to assume he'll get his property back.

I'm going with, "No" on the gunpowder portion of his property.

Flames shot into the air as New Jersey State Police destroyed gunpowder...

I never hear of authorities destroying confiscated cash...strange.
 
500,000 rounds... no wonder ammo is so expensive. This guy single handedly inflated the price of ammo.

Anyway, the article says nothing about what the guy did that was wrong... besides being a gun owner in NJ.

Running for a gun when the police are there is a sure way to get your butt in a sling anywhere. Please note they didn't shoot him and they probably would have been justified in doing so.

I doubt they would have been justified considering the fact that they got the warrant AFTER the fact. If anyone comes bustin through my front door... cops or not... I will do what I can to stop them. Unless they serve me a warrant.

There is not enough info here to know what happened. If the guy is a gun thief, he should pay. If he is just a (slightly over zealous) gun collector, then the cops went too far.
 
seemingly arbitrary behaviour on the part of law enforcement, especially in regard to warrants,

What seems to be arbitrary behavior on the part of law enforcement here? There is no mention of having a warrant or not.

'walking-on-broken-glass" choice of words from some within the gun-owning community.

There is no "walking on broken glass" in what I say just get the full story before making a judgement on who's the bad guy here. A lot of people jump the gun (excuse the pun) and automatically defend the actions of anyone arrested with guns and condemn the police.

There was a lot of assuming on the part of those bashing the police here.

have you ever been to new jersey grizz? have along conversation with someone who lives there and appreciates personal liberty. it is THE nanny state. i'll side with whoever is on the receiving end of new jersey-style justice as a matter of course.


I've lived in NJ for over 50 years does that qualify? The standard answer is to move out but that dopesn't take into account jobs, family, business, etc. Yeah, you can pick up and move if your 50 years old and your career has been working a minimum wage job.

As far as someone who lives there and appreciates personal liberty I would say that's me. Get away from the population centers (Newark, Jersey City, Camden, Trenton etc) and NJ is very conservative. The problem is that the population centers have more people, ergo more votes to keep liberal socialists running the state. NJ, a Nanny Statet? No argument from me on that so we agree on at leats one point. I'll make no excuses for NJs draconian gun laws because tehre isn't any.

Always defend the guy because he has guns? Would you defend him as strongly if it were child pornography? There is a First Amendment too.

i'll stick my neck out and vote on the side of the owner at this point. at any rate, this could be me next. my

This apparently is a statement of which side your on here. Miranda warnings say anything you say can be used against you. that really counts for anything else you say anywhere. Where do you think the anti-gun lobby gets a lot of their material and arguments? They'll quote in and out of context to make it say what they want it to say. Many are doing the same here. The police have to be wrong they arrested a guy with guns! I say get at least most of the story before you take a side. Initial news articles usually fail to give all the detauils. I'll bet most people on this forum would think someone going for a gun was going to attack them.

I am just not one of "the guy has to right because he has guns" people.

I doubt they would have been justified considering the fact that they got the warrant AFTER the fact. If anyone comes bustin through my front door... cops or not... I will do what I can to stop them. Unless they serve me a warrant.


Once again would someone please point out anything in the original article that the police had no warrant.
 
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Police already destroyed his personal property without BEFORE any due process took place. Unless the ammo had deteriorated so badly it was unsafe to handle or store, they should not have destroyed it. Lets assume man goes to court, jury finds him not guilty, judge says police have to return his property. Think they will buy him new ammo?
 
Anyway, the article says nothing about what the guy did that was wrong... besides being a gun owner in NJ.

It says this

State police say an investigation into two recent burglaries in Salem County led them to the property on Monday.

It sounds an awful lot like this guy is part of a burglary ring and he is providing guns to BG's.

I'm surprised at the responses to this article. The way I read it the police had a reason to come and question the guy, then he gets all squirrelly and grabs a gun. That prompted the arrest and warrant. I suspect a bad guy is about to go to jail.
 
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