Artificial heart valves & shooting

Status
Not open for further replies.
Not to mention that if it was a single "connected" unit, placement would require surgical implantation of the lead to the epicardium. I'm thinking a thorocotomy to implant the lead with a "tunnel" up the pacemaker pocket. Makes for a hell of a changeout.

HA! Swampgator, you'll have to forgive me since it's been so long ago since I've been intimately involved in this stuff; about 22 years ago to be exact. I think I'm following your thoughts above, but I may just have to take your word for it at this point, brother. :D

Here's to healthy lives for all of us gun nuts!!!!!
 
I shoot .30'06 in M1s and 03A3s, 7.62x54R and 8mm Mausers with a prosthetic mitral valve and have had no problems in the three years I've been ticking like a clock.
 
ICDs and pacers are different. With ICD, one has to be concerned with travel of current between the lead and the can (jargon for the generator, not sound suppressor:D), so left sided placement is beneficial. With pacer, side of insertion is irrelevant.

I would not recommend positioning the buttstock over pacemaker pocket. The cans are robust, yet I wouldn't subject it to recoil if I had one, for fear of damage to it and, in your case, bleeding into pocket (see below). Hopefully, yours is on the other side.

The valve itself, however, shouldn't present any issues, at least, any that I know of. You do need to know that some valves fail at suture line and develop paravalvular leaks, at times leading to re-do surgery. I am not aware, however, of any studies linking valve failure to exposure to concussion or vibration. Usually it takes some time for stuff to heal and endothelialize inside the heart, but after that, it should be fine. I'd actually talk to your CT surgeon, not cardiologist, about healing times. I can tell you that with bioprosthetic valves we prescribe Coumadin for 3 months, assuming that after that all sutures etc. are covered with endocardial tissue.

You mentioned that it is ticking like a watch, which makes me believe it is a mechanical valve, probably St. Jude's. If that's the case, then you should be taking Coumadin. Some folks get bruised easily, and everybody bleeds easily with even small trauma. Bleeding in pacer pocket is not fun thing to have.

That's all I can think of; will post more if anything else comes to mind.

PS. You didn't say when the valve was replaced so, if it is recent, then you need to let your chest wall heal. I'd not shoot for as long as you're not allowed to drive.
 
Last edited:
Excellent post, YK! The fact that ctdonash could be a Coumadin patient didn't even dawn on me.

ctdonash, you should schedule a CYP450 2C9/VKORC1 microarray-based genetic profile immediately.....kidding, Sir!

Gotta love guns & medicine! (But not in the guns & drugs sense!)
 
That's all I can think of; will post more if anything else comes to mind.

The more I think about it; rifles with any recoil probably aren't a good idea, besides damage to the unit itself wouldn't he be risking dislodgment of a lead; a little tickle and oh poo he's in A-fib or worse V-tach depending on his pacer. Any risk of tamponade if he pulls a lead loose or punctures one through the heart wall, maybe?
 
Yk hit it right on the money. I just got rid of all of my St.Jude's... (Surgical Supply Distribution Coordinator at midwest hospital)
I wouldn't worry about the recoil too much as long as you don't place the buttstock right over the pacemaker or heart valve.
 
I asked my electrophysiologist partner about pacers today, and he have not had any issues, except for what I'd said - protection from mechanical impact. He is not aware of any issues with lead dislodgement etc. We're are in northern Utah, with plenty of hunters around here, and he said "I always allow people to hunt, after about 1 months post-implantation, and I always implant pacers on their non-shooting side".

Hope this helps, and take care of yourself.
 
Thanks for all the thoughtful & useful posts, folks.

Yes, I'm on Coumadin forever now. Any activity that risks bleeding must now be reconsidered. My knife & sword hobbies are pretty much done. (FYI to some: artificial valves require "thin blood" to prevent clots from forming and plugging the valve or causing strokes, so anti-clotting medication (aka Coumadin) is required daily forever.)

Just wanted some experienced chatter on the subject before raising it to the docs. They're mostly of the "back to normal" mindset, so I'm not too worried. Direct, traumatic chest impacts are to be avoided (Jeet Kune Do is out then), but nothing yet on shoulder impacts from rifles. Shooting enough to cause bruising is probably also not a good idea (bruising = intra-skin bleeding).

Back to my napping to recover from that feeling of being hit by a truck...
 
you are just making me remember that feeling...ouch.. I'm the same way I'm on Coumadin forever...and after you are healing nice you shouldn't have any problems shooting... as for me I did wait more time to fire any rifles and shotguns than I did for handguns. and like I said before I bought extra pads for when I go to the range with my shotgun, probably don't need it but hey I don't want to take any chances either....
have a speedy recovery...
 
I may not be telling you something you don't already know, but just in case:

If significant recoil becomes an issue, always remember there are products available for range time such as the Caldwell Lead Sled:

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=152664

152664.gif

and MTM Case-Gard makes a less expensive, molded plastic version called the Shoulder-Gard Rifle Rest. I own one of these just to keep as a spare, toss-around rest in my car. It has a hollow center compartment which can be weighted down w/ boxes of ammo or bags of shot like the Lead Sled. I think I paid $20 and, yes, it does work if it's weighted down properly.

http://www.mtmcase-gard.com/products/shooting/rifle_rest.html

SGR-30.gif
 
When my dad had his pacemaker put in, he told the doctor he shot trap, and the doctor moved where he place the pacemaker to make sure it would minimize the recoil forces on the pacemaker.
 
My dad had a replacement aortic valve. He shot skeet, sporting clays, trap and was an avid hunter. He also continued to work 60 to 70 hrs a week doing construction. Just make sure you stay on top of your blood thinners.
 
In addition to the ICD I'm also on coumadin. Have to go to the "clinic" every 3 or 4 weeks to have the level checked. Had to give up my safety razor and get an electric. Hate it, can't seem to get a real good shave but have seen what a little scratch can do so I'm a believer. And I carry a few band aids in my wallet. And for you younger folks, don't you believe what you hear about the "Golden Years" for a minute! :)
 
Raised the issue to the doc.

Amusingly, it came up when she saw my cute baby girl, and she said "get a shotgun" (re: suitors some years hence). "Speaking of shotguns..."

Only apparent concern is to not shoot, drive, golf or fish for a couple months - gotta give my much-abused sternum a chance to heal. Avoid activities that torque the ribcage.

Beyond that, no activities that predictably result in traumatic center-chest impacts (Jeet Kune Do is over); I suppose half of the issue is the pacemaker electrodes - don't want those knocked loose somehow. Also, I figure that CCW has become more important than ever: being on blood thinners (warfarin, aka Coumadin), not getting cut is paramount in self-defense situations, so I should be equipped to stop a potentially lethal fight faster than ever.

Apparently, once everything heals, most activities are back to normal.

I'll bounce the question off another doc or two in a couple weeks, just to be sure.

Nuts: the AAC Silencer Shoot is early next month - well within my 2-month no-shooting period.

Oh, FWIW: I'm 40 and otherwise quite healthy. This stuff can sneak up on "young" guys easy. For decades I've known the valve would need replacing, but the pacemaker (side effect of degrading valve) was a surprise.
 
I would not recommend positioning the buttstock over pacemaker pocket.
Absolutely. I'm firmly right-handed, and the pacer is in the left shoulder. No problem there.

I am not aware, however, of any studies linking valve failure to exposure to concussion or vibration. Usually it takes some time for stuff to heal and endothelialize inside the heart, but after that, it should be fine.
Good. I'll pass it by the primary CT surgeon when I see him in a couple weeks. Just to be sure, I'll not shoot for the rest of the year.

You mentioned that it is ticking like a watch, which makes me believe it is a mechanical valve
Yes, it's mechanical - only realistic option considering it needs to operate for about 50 years.

You didn't say when the valve was replaced
About 3 weeks ago. Yes, I'll give it more than enough time to heal.
 
Did they tell you to avoid any other activities when you got the valve? I had a kidney removed and they told me to avoid contact sports -- presumably because a hard jolt to my lower back could damage my sole remaining kidney.

I would think that if there is a danger to your heart from jolts or impacts they would have told you to avoid them.
 
No, but I had a Nokai cell-phone that shut itself off every time I shot a handgun with it on my belt.

Stayed on with rifles & shotguns.

Never did figure out what was up with that.

rcmodel
 
Update: three doctors so far have approved of shooting with an artificial heart valve, just wait about 3 months after the surgery. One indicated that getting shot at was probably a bad idea.

Anything that may reasonably produce a center-chest impact is contraindicated, including comments warning about downhill skiing (more aggressive styles) and motorcycles. Sparring-oriented martial arts are presumably disallowed.
 
My wife (only 30) just had her valve replaced and I can tell you that there is no better sound in the world than that nice reassuring tick tick tick. We talked to her cardiologist and the surgeon about shooting and both okay'd it after the recovery period(another 4 weeks). Since she's quite small they suggested a recoil pad for rifles to reduce any chance of bruising from recoil.

Good luck with the new ticker.
 
At a sleepless oh-dark-thirty, "reassuring" is not the term I think of about that relentless "TICK TICK TICK" that seems to emenate from the base of my skull. :)

A co-worker heard it and said "you're ticking! no, wait, that's your watch..." Her reaction to "um, no, actually that IS me!" was delightful.

FYI tangent: if she got an On-X valve, be aware that there's a major study underway investigating the potential for a significant reduction in Coumadin.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top