As a prepared home defender, firearm owner, are you prepared for the suppression of hostile fire?

Discussion in 'Strategies, Tactics, and Training' started by yeongjo, Nov 19, 2021.

  1. JTHunter

    JTHunter Member

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    Being an "old" Boy Scout, there is a 1A/10BC extinguisher in my kitchen on the floor next to the outside door that opens on a carport. There is another mounted on the wall behind the washer and dryer that is in an alcove opposite that door. In my detached pole barn, there is a 2A/20BC on the wall near the "walk through" door and a 1A/10BC near the back wall, mounted on the wall of the enclosed workroom. There is another 1A/10BC inside the workroom about halfway back.
    Both vehicles have the little 5BC extinguishers as well.
     
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  2. Blue Jays

    Blue Jays Member

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    JTHunter…a challenge in dealing with contemporary rioters would be fires being started on opposite sides of the home and/or simultaneously if it is a substantial crazed mob. One would suppose manually switching-on lawn sprinklers could help to dissuade some people, yet that does not truly protect the building itself.
     
  3. Zerodefect

    Zerodefect Member

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    I get a new house if you burn it down. Please do.
     
  4. CapnMac

    CapnMac Member

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    This is complicated sledding.

    Extinguishing structure fires is not a casual endeavor. Accelerate-assisted fires are going to resist being put out with a simple, hand-held, extinguisher. And, you are generally looking at needing an extinguisher per "molotov," too. That's presuming nothing else in/on the structure "catches" as well.

    Involved structure fires require substantially more infrastructure than a simple extinguisher. And, that infrastructure wants considerable training.

    Rural folks could pull a hitch or two with the VFD and be a bit more prepared--but, you still have the problem of trying to cope with a technically precises sort of response to one problem while also coping with goblins trying to make the problem worse.

    Now, luckily, real-world "molotovs" are not nearly so dramatic as the hollywood versions. But, toting around a 2 or 3 pound extinguisher while trying to control a perimeter is not going to be easy.

    Neither is fitting up your house with an NFPA 13D suppression system (and unless you like in wildfire areas, you are going to boggle your designer by asking for exterior wall protection).

    I've been to Fire Training School. Run Damage Control exercises on ships, too. I've no good answers, and I'm not entirely sure where I'd turn to find them, either. It bears thinking about.
     
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  5. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    Your homeowner policy doesn't exclude "riots"?
     
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  6. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    Not really. I keep more fire extinguishers on hand than do most people....near the fireplace, in the kitchen, in the bedroom....

    I would expect a fire to be more likely to result from a mechanical failure, a cooking issue, or something making its way out of he fireplace.

    We do not use candles that burn.

    It is not prudent to try to fight fires. Try the extinguisher if you can, but get out in low single digit minutes at most.
     
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  7. Old Dog

    Old Dog Member

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    This topic is not nearly as far-fetched as some of you apparently think. Living in the greater Pugetropolis (Puget Sound) area, where our rioters (excuse me, protesters) share an affinity with those in Portlandia for "molotov cocktails" and other improvised fire-starting methods when it comes to attacking vehicles, structures and occupied buildings, I have no doubt that if the civil unrest widens, apartments and houses can become victim to this "new" old style of attack.
     
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  8. Zerodefect

    Zerodefect Member

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    Nope. That's covered. I don't live in a ghetto.

    My neighbors would drop them long before they would be within bottle throwing range though. Everybody in the burbs knows where the line is.
     
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  9. TarDevil

    TarDevil Member

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    Fire extinguishers and sprinkler systems aren't designed to put out fires... their job is to get you out of the fire.
     
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  10. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    That would lead to an uncertain outcome RE: justification.
     
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  11. Zerodefect

    Zerodefect Member

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    Sure, if you could figure out what direction the shot came from.

    Good luck with that officer. I didn't see a thing.
     
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  12. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    That is unrealistic, inane, and it is not THR worthy.
     
  13. Zerodefect

    Zerodefect Member

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    Welcome to the real world.

    There was people lined up during the spring "protests". Every house on alert. The PD was clear that the protestors stay within the "permitted downtown area" for their own protection.

    Nobody was marching south of it.

    You can roll over and continue losing. Or stand your ground smartly. Your call.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2021
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  14. Good Ol' Boy

    Good Ol' Boy Member

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    After pondering on this some more, some of you folks need to be thinking about your own personal ROE. 3m windows are fine but fire can easily and effectively be set to many different areas of a home.

    I live in a modular home which are known to go up like a Roman candle with the slightest bit of flame. If there's a mob of people outside looking like they're ready to throw fire Im not giving them the chance. I have plenty of fire extinguishers but they are not a defensive tool they are an emergency tool after the fact.

    That being said, there's also the issue of whether or not we're still a lawful society at that point. We have seen several years of folks in various places across the country burning, looting and murdering with little to no resistance from LE or justice through the courts. Not to mention lack of govt intervention when there should be.

    Just something to keep in mind when doing this kind of preparing.


    ETA- I live in the sticks so its highly unlikely I would encounter anything like the above. Still I think about and prepare for it. You suburban/ city folks should probably take it a bit more serious.
     
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  15. Zerodefect

    Zerodefect Member

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    Modern houses can be tough to light up. My GF's little sister tossed a cigarette on a dry pine tree up close to vinyl siding. Exactly the kind of dead tree you dont want up against a house.

    Tree nuked and the siding melted for about 7' wide, up to the gutter. House should have gone up. Not sure why it didn't.
     
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  16. bassjam

    bassjam Member

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    Regardless of if this fire suppression is necessary because of arson, appliance failure, or an act of God, I'd recommend people go out to a safe area, light a fire, and ask members of their family to use a fire extinguisher to put it out. The first place I worked at (R&D office building) did this every 2 years, and I was amazed how bad people where. We had the fire department there and they'd spray some kerosene on a concrete pad, when it was your turn in line you'd pick up the extinguisher and do your thing. But, even though these people had done this multiple times over their career, AND were watching the 50 or so people in front of them complete this task, a good 50% STILL always aimed the extinguisher at the flames and not the fuel AND never realized their mistake until one of the firemen told them to aim at the accelerate.
     
  17. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    The comment was about "dropping them before they would be in bottle throwing range".

    Let no one, member or guest, believe that the crossing of an established line or the leaving of a designated area would begin to create a condition of imminence that would justify the use of deadly force by civilians or law enforcement.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2021
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  18. John_R

    John_R Member

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    You may need so much water that you’d have water damage instead of fire damage. I’ve been in many houses that had fires, the whole place needed rebuilding. This is what insurance is for.
     
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  19. P5 Guy

    P5 Guy Member

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    Who is going to give you a new house?
    Suing the folks, if caught for arson won't get you a new house.
    Can one sue BLM?
    Your property insurance certainly has a clause that relieves them of responsibility war or civil unrest.
    Rioting. looting and burning is only a win for the rioters, looters and firebombers.
     
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  20. yeongjo

    yeongjo Member

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    I feel the same, and thank you, fire professionals may be better able to consider this. What prompted this post was exactly as I stated, comments made on another highly fractious internet forum involving fire use by rioters against law enforcement. Clearly a psychopathic thought process.
    Obviously, the best advice is to exit a structure fire. In looking at the YT "blancolirio" report of the "Cessna 340A Crash San Diego, CA 11 Oct 2021" and associated bystander video footage by the The San Diego Union-Tribune. Occupants may not be immediately aware of the rapidly expanding nature of a fire out of control such as the plane which crashed into homes in Santee, CA. While not the best example due to great amount of jet A fueling the initial fire. It is a problematic dilemma because as one poster opined, removing the danger at a distance is not wise, and yet the very lackadaisical processes we see played out in the enforcement of existing law often puts the defender at significant disadvantage when those with a destructive agenda turn into peaceful protestors, looters or a flashmob.
     
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  21. CapnMac

    CapnMac Member

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    Yeah, and fire is "un-natural"--at least to human perception--in the way it propagates.

    "Our" general experience is with small, controlled things like camp fires, that as slow and reluctant to catch fire, and want careful tending to keep going. And, that's actually on purpose, we want our deliberate fires to be controlled, and to "fail safe" to unlit.

    Uncontrolled fires need more than one person to cope with (the fire services use the term "attack" deliberately for how they address fires).

    SO, in our Original Premise here, one of the problems a single self defender faces versus a group threat are threat coming from multiple directions. Add in a fire--which will focus a person's attention, as well as overload the senses--and the number of extra "eyes" required multiplies along with the need for additional arms.

    While writing all this, another issue occurs to me. One of the major dangers, an invisible one at that, and deadlier than flames--are the combustion products from fire. "Smoke inhalation" kills far, far more than actual flames. So, yet one more risk the home/self defender faces with fire are the combustion products.

    Again, nothing leaps to mind as an adequate answer, short of living in the firehouse (and even then, they often leave the house empty to go on calls).
     
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  22. Blue Jays

    Blue Jays Member

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    It is looking like comprehensively protecting a residential structure against arson would cost LOTS of money. I do like the idea of installing shatterproof film on the glass. Might try that approach on a single window just to see how it holds-up to sun, rain, heat, cold, wind, and blowing dust.
     
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  23. Madcap_Magician

    Madcap_Magician Member

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    Defending myself against a mob of >80 arsonists is pretty low on the list of things I need to prepare for. I'm not really sure how you'd do that, but preparing for something like that would require resources dramatically disproportionate to the risk of it occurring where I live.
     
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  24. armoredman

    armoredman Member

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    As mentioned earlier, some states do have use of deadly physical for in prevention of arson of an occupied structure;
    So, while the law is there, it's kind of short on details. Not being a lawyer, I might suggest if someone was within throwing range with a lit Molotov and the law abiding citizen had good reason to believe they were about to throw the illegal incendiary device, they might be within the law. However, I do not know of any case study evidence of this law being utilized to know how it has played out in a court room at this time.
     
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  25. Zerodefect

    Zerodefect Member

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    If your neighbors are all as armed as you, it's a just a matter of a simply "block party".

    Most of us where ready from our upstairs rooms. Some were stuck with an outside game plan.
     
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