As a prepared home defender, firearm owner, are you prepared for the suppression of hostile fire?

Discussion in 'Strategies, Tactics, and Training' started by yeongjo, Nov 19, 2021.

  1. Palladan44

    Palladan44 Member

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    Order of Importance for me and my family's overall well being:
    -Having integrity
    -Water
    -Food
    -Shelter
    -First Aid
    -Smoke detectors/C.M.detectors/ fire extinguishers
    and plan for evac. for any number of problems such as fire, weather, Power outage, etc.
    - Protection for: "crimes against our persons"
    - etc.

    Easy items to all have checked off the checklist, and I can't emphasize enough at least initial/annual maintenance and training for all safety equipment.
    Good post OP, all stay safe. Happy Thanksgiving!
     
  2. starnbar

    starnbar Member

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    This will sound a little drastic And over board but I know of several people who have purchased flame throwers and yes you can buy them online they are legal at least here in FL. They are civilian versions I have only seen vids on y-tube but they seem impressive. this might keep the bottle throwers out of range of your abode just a thought.
     
  3. jmorris

    jmorris Member

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    ^ I think an oil filled moat, set on fire would work at maintaining a perimeter, until it goes out.

    Not flame thrower but this little device was thrown together to help start fires on our place.



    Burning up dead stuff and keeping stuff cleared up but that’s not really an issue for city properties that are measured in square feet.

    If all you had was rock everywhere a gas filled sprinkler system would be a quick way of setting up a perimeter, even if quite unpractical.

    I have always had fire extinguishers is good supply but even when we lived in the city, the plan was to get out of it vs defend the house there. We wouldn’t be alone on our place.

    Where we are running the forklift out to the road to block the drive with concrete blocks would be more important, would take a lot longer to close the distance on the house on foot, and there’s not a lot of cover along the way.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2021
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  4. gyp_c2

    gyp_c2 Member

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    100 YO old house hit with a molotov or anything accelerant based = Get Out!
    Time better spent staying alive!
    If things have gone that badly, I'm already out anyhow.
    Meet ya' down the road a ways.
    ;)
     
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  5. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    Would a reasonable person use one for lawful self defense? I think not.
     
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  6. coloradokevin

    coloradokevin Member

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    This is certainly a relevant topic when thinking about defending your home in times of civil unrest and riots. I've thought about this a number of times, and it's one of the harder threats to defend against. To effectively discuss this I think we need to break the threat down into at least two categories based on a combination of motivation and execution:

    1) The targeted attack. This is a case where an individual or group is targeting you, your home, and your family directly. If they conduct a coordinated attack to force you from the home with fire, well, this will be an extremely difficult threat to defend against. You're likely to lose this one unless you've designed your entire home to defend against this type of attack, or unless you've got a team of defenders setup and ready to fight against this attack 24/7. Incidentally, defending the windows is one of the most obvious areas to prevent fire from easily being introduced to your home - someone already mentioned the steel roll-up shutters and the idea of window film above. Those can help against thrown Molotov cocktails and the like.

    2) The angry mob. This is probably the greater threat that most people would face when it comes to an arson attack. In this case I'm talking about riot situations where people are just randomly burning property and buildings during a period of mass lawlessness. In this instance you probably won't be facing an attack that is specifically designed to overwhelm your defenses, but instead you will be facing an attack of opportunity... if your place is easy to burn down without cost to the attacker, you might get burned down (whether or not your family is inside).

    In thinking about this second scenario I can picture a number of things you can do to help your odds of successfully mitigating this threat. For starters, having chemical fire extinguishers readily available will be essential to putting out the accelerant that an attacker might spread through a Molotov cocktail or similar type of improvised fire bomb (water isn't the best suppressant against this type of threat). Also, an advanced awareness of impending mob activity can give you time to harden your property against such an attack. For example, boarding windows would do a lot to prevent the most likely and effective way this attack might be executed: by throwing a device through a glass window into a house filled with flammable materials. Similarly, if you knew that riots were imminent, you could also remove drapery or other materials that might allow a fire to quickly grow and spread within a home (ex: rolling up and storing throw rugs in a basement, etc.)... again, fast containment of an individual source of ignition would be essential to prevailing.

    But, most of what I've just discussed involves putting out a fire, or preventing its spread, after it has already started. The better defense is to ensure that no fire is introduced into your home in the first place. And, the ugly truth is that effective deterrence in this case is also likely to involve the willingness and ability to mount an effective and violent defense against such an assault. For starters, you certainly want to create distance between the mob and your home. Also, if you see someone in the process of actively targeting you with a firebomb, you're already in a deadly force encounter.

    Although rioters tend to be violent and often indiscriminate in their target selection, history has also shown us that encountering armed resistance tends to scatter most rioters, and break their resolve. You need only look through the news archives to see effective examples of this happening during various newsworthy events: the LA riots in the 1990's, the riots in Kenosha, WI, a year ago, and so on. But, even as a good guy defending a homestead, you're still going to be responsible for every round that you fire in defense of that home... your shots may scatter the mob, but they had better be aimed deliberately, and with regards to what constitutes a legal threat that justifies the use of deadly physical force (remember that many of our modern riots are composed of a mixture of "peaceful protesters" and "violent rioters").

    The bottom line is that an arson attack can be difficult to defend against, particularly in a city living environment. But, it's also not impossible to do some things to help tilt the situation in your favor.
     
  7. sota

    sota Member

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    And THAT, is the precise reasoning as to why I recently added small extinguishers to my vehicles. They're not to stop a fire; they're there to make time to get people extracted. Same goes for the other emergency (Stop The Bleed) gear I carry; it's to give the person time for trained professionals to arrive and work the problem.
     
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  8. Blue Jays

    Blue Jays Member

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    If one has an irrigation system and anticipates civil unrest…it might make sense to flip system ON and give everything a good soaking. Those "misters" that spray the fresh vegetables at the grocery would be fantastic mounted along soffits and roofline to keep things drenched. It is impossible to plan for every wild scenario.
     
  9. Blue Jays

    Blue Jays Member

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    Any meaningful fire suppression would need to be mounted HIGH so it could not be easily disabled or destroyed at ground level. I am going to research putting film on glass. That seems like it would be a cost-effective initial step.
     
  10. CapnMac

    CapnMac Member

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    Not so much or fire suppression--that needs a completely different volume of water (irrigation can be supplied wit ha 1/2 or 3/4 inch water meter; NFPA 13D needs a 2" (or larger) meter.

    Now, having the sprinkler on might keep random rioters out of your yard, though. (Determined arsonists being able to use the driveway or sidewalk--which you are not supposed to be irrigating--of course.)

    There is an issue I've not seen addressed here, though. Let's suppose one has hunkered down with one's family waiting out local unrest. And, that perimeter suffices for the present unrest. Now suppose the neighbor does something churlish and/or stupid, and draws the mob onto his abode, which then bursts into flames. Whether the FD arrives or not, how do you get out? Your perimeter is good, other than flames from the neighbor. But, to get out, you will have to breach that perimeter, to change your "bubble" to a different dimension. That's a significant calculus. Which could be even more complicated if your drive way is blocked, or your escape route must needs go over the side or back fence. And no two of those will be the same.
     
  11. P89DCSS

    P89DCSS Member

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    I could explain how I'm ready for a 5-6 person gang that was harassing me but an 80 person armed mob throwing molotovs? Unlikely to occur where I live. And to survive that situation we're into prepper territory.
     
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  12. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    Discussion of out-of-control arson fires is not within the realm of lawful self defense and is not within the scope of ST&T.
     
  13. Blue Jays

    Blue Jays Member

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    Immersing the area with truly blinding outward-facing lights would also help.
    It is a distinct advantage for the residents and genuinely uncomfortable for the uninvited.
    Might make sense to have an extra "bank" of lights that can be utilized in such cases.
     
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  14. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    I have the 3M security film. If you live somewhere that gets very hot or very cold you can even get it with a thermal feature included. The rep who comes to measure your window spaces will be glad to give you an estimate with and without. Living in Arizona, I opted for that.

    I actually bought it to buy myself more time in the event of an attempted break-in, never thought about Molotov cocktails and such before, but given performance like this against attempted break-ins, a thrown Molotov cocktail isn't going to break through either:

    security video of actual break-in attempt:


    video from 3M site showing test comparison with and without the film:
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2021
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  15. bigger hammer

    bigger hammer Member

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    Isn't "someone in the process of setting an inhabited structure on fire" creating an "imminent threat to life or GBI" and therefore wouldn't it qualify for the use of deadly force to stop it? What am I missing?
     
  16. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    I agree with your assessment. In at least some states, there is a specific statute that defines it as such. I don't know what happens in states that don't have such a statute.
     
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  17. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    Of course, statutes alone do not define the law.
     
  18. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    Of course.
     
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