As you grew up, how did you avoid siding with anti-gun thinking?

[GoWolfpack]

How did you avoid siding with anti-gun thinking?

Easy.


I used my brain.

 

[Deanimator]

1. EVERYTHING they said was OBVIOUSLY a lie. I HATE liars.
2. I have NEVER had the SLIGHTEST inclination to meekly submit to an aggressor.
3. Long personal experience and direct observation tell me that police "protection" of individuals is AT BEST a fairytale, at worst a despicable LIE.

 

[blazer610]

I grew up around guns. My dad and grandfather were bird hunters. My grandfather was in law enforcement and had lots of guns. We shot often, with shotguns, handguns and rifles.
I'm almost 56 years old and when I was in school, schools had shooting teams. In high school, after I got my drivers license, I often had a shotgun in the trunk of my car, during school. There were a number of us that left directly from school to hunt dove, quail, ducks, etc... Guns have always been a normal part of my life.

 

[orionengnr]

I was raised in an environment that fostered THINKING about decisions and issues, not blindly allowing groupthink and knee-jerk reaction dictate my beliefs.

I thank God for that upbringing every day....and lament the fact that those days are gone, probably forever.

The Texas I live in today is not quite as 2A friendly as the Connecticut I grew up in nearly 50 years ago. Of course, Connecticut these days is like occupied Poland was in 1941.

That is the direction that this Country has taken during my lifetime. And that will probably continue, unfortunately. Our one-great Country is now filled with idiots and free-loaders. I attribute this to our "education" system.

 

[DeadMoneyDrew]

I grew up in a small North Carolina town in the 80s and early 90s. "Gun control" was an unknown concept. Lots of kids my age hunted, and though I only did so from time to time, I had no problem seeing my neighbors walking down the road toting a rifle. We owned a shotgun, several rifles, and at least one pistol, and at my grandfather's house there were guns galore. We were taught gun safety in school, and I took rifle and shotgun shooting courses in the Boy Scouts and at various summer camps. The only gun rules were:

1. don't bring it to school
2. don't carry one concealed
3. don't do anything illegal

One of my neighbors had the ole "When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns" bumper sticker on his truck. I once asked my mother why our neighbor felt the need for that bumper sticker, since I didn't understand why anyone would ever outlaw a gun. She didn't have an answer. Around that same time, some idiot shot up a McDonald's in San Diego and killed 20+ people before finally taking his own life. We sat down as a family and talked about it since it was so shocking. My parents explained that the murderer was a sick person who was angry at the world and chose to act out against innocent people. Nobody blamed the firearm.

EDIT: minor detail wrong. McD's shooter was killed by the police.

San Ysidro McDonald's shooting

 

[DeadMoneyDrew]

I'm 18, going to a public school. The crap we're spoon fed is unbelievable. I seriously fear for my generation. Anti gun beliefs are the norm, and are given as facts. I argue with teachers regularly. The only reason I'm not a sheep is because of my family teaching me right at a young age.

So long as we have at least one person from your generation on our side, we stand a chance!

 

[ol' scratch]

Born in 1977 and reaching the age of some awareness in the 1990's didn't allow you to see the other side of the coin. I doubt you were aware of the 1994 AWB (unless you had a parent or respected relative who informed you) until internet access became common for regular people. In my opinion, there is a real push in the public school curiculum to train kids during their formative years to be againsts "negative forces" as mostly defined by the left leaning "education system". But who would dissagree that kids should be nudged away from negative forces, right? By the way, I have two brothers who are teachers and they would totally agree with your statement above.

So you claim I couldn't remember being 17-years-old? I purchased my first firearm when I was 18, maybe I forgot that too. Frankly SIR I don't like being called a liar. There was plenty of information available before the information age. The implication that I only heard about it after the advent of the net is insulting. Might I add, you know teachers. I guess that makes you an expert. I was a teacher and still hold a license. I guess you know more than I do.

 

[ol' scratch]

@ ol' scratch - check out the writings/interviews of Charlotte Iserbyt, formerly at the highest levels in the US Dept of Education. Check out the writings/interviews of John Taylor Gatto, former NYC and NY state teacher of the year.

Of course, its not about every teacher. My h.s. science teacher was a Marine Korean war vet (a medic in a unit that lost most of its men to enemy fire). When we went on the annual school field trip out in desert country, he'd strap on his 357 mag revolver stuffed with snake loads for the rattlesnakes. (Of course this was many, many years ago. Would never happen today.)

After investigating this for yourself, you may have a change in viewpoint about public 'schooling', however:


http://johntaylorgatto.com/underground/index.htm

P.S. - interestingly enough, I've only gotten a few school teachers to read the above. Many don't want to think that what they had been taught about 'education' may have been a lie.

Charlotte Iserbyt is a conspiracy theorist. She is not a legitimate source for anything but crackpot theories. Even if she was, she served in the U.S. Department of Education during Reagan's first term in office and was relieved of her duties a year later. That really isn't a glowing recommendation. I am not familiar with John Taylor Gatto. At the time of this response I have not had a chance to look him up, so I will not comment on his body of work. I will say that you have one source I can't discredit, but I can't very well support it either. That isn't much information to go on. I gave my perceptions of the education system using my personal experiences, which is exactly what was asked in the original post that started the thread. I attended public school in a rural area. I went to college and earned a BS in journalism, wrote for a newspaper, later earned a teaching certification and taught for 5 years. I have spent much of my life in the Midwest, but my higher education took place in and around Ann Arbor and Ypsilanti; a very liberal area. Given my background, you would think I would be anti gun if you buy into the stereotypes perpetuated by right wing "news" personalities. Quite the opposite is true, however. I am a firearms "geek" and learn more everyday. I have built firearms (a few STENS, many AR's including a few 80 percent lowers) reload and shoot all the time. Do I have problems with media and education? I sure do. Was there bias in certain areas? There sure was, but I can honestly say we rarely spoke about firearms in any class. I would have remembered. My problem with the original question is that it implied an absolute and a far reaching conspiracy. In my professional opinion, taking into account that I was gainfully employed in fields thought of as left leaning, I can honestly say there is no conspiracy.

 

[Pointshoot]

@ol scratch - - - - you started off with an Ad Hominem attack, that is an attack on the individual rather on specific points made, - in reference to Iserbyt. This is a logical fallacy. Such attacks shut down further inquiry.

As for Mr Gatto - he is extremely well known to those familiar with the history of education in the United States. The nature of education was purposely changed starting in the late 1890s to early 1900s. This was done by private monied interests through private foundations which they controlled. I suggest you read Mr. Gatto's book "Underground History of American Education". Earlier I provided the link to where you can do this online for free. Gatto provides sources (from those who have pursued this agenda) and his writing style is excellent.

I'm sorry, but you commit another error of logic when you state that your own personal ground level experience proves that there is no broader agenda in action regarding education. The specific does not necessarily apply to the broader picture. To be fair, however, you did say that you could not comment on that given your lack of specific knowledge in this area - particularly in regard to the work of Mr. Gatto.
An example of this type of error of logic, would be the account of a Vietnam war vet who said his personal experience on the ground proved that there was no broader agenda to get America into that war. He never saw such an agenda in action and he was an infantry grunt on the ground for more than a year. Well, the historical evidence is rather obvious today that President Johnson used false reports of 'attacks' on US Navy ships in the Gulf of Tonkin as an excuse to expand US participation in that war. This, despite the sincere protests of our infantry grunt whose personal experience was irrelevant to these matters.
Also, to be fair - I'm referring to education in much broader terms than just concerning how people may have been influenced regarding their views on guns. This is the topic of the thread, not this broader question.

BTW - I don't happen to be 'right wing' and I don't watch mainstream 'news' sources. I'd like to think I have come to outgrow the false 'left' versus 'right' paradigm of thinking. My attitudes on this changed years ago when I looked at this subject with an open mind, and came to see that both sides ended up supporting the same kinds of actions on the ground, despite their rhetoric. For example, 'conservatives' talked about fiscal soundness, but like spending tons of money on the military & expansion of government. 'Liberals' were all for peace, but supported multiple wars when 'their guy' in office was pushing them.

As supporters of the 2A and firearms enthusiasts, we are allies. We are on the same side on this issue. Its not my purpose to get into a 'pissing contest', to prove myself 'right' and you 'wrong'. My purpose is to introduce you to Gatto's work particularly, so that you may read it and with an open mind, decide for yourself. Several have thanked me for introducing them to material which had a profound impact on their way of viewing the world.
http://johntaylorgatto.com/underground/index.htm

Regards, - - -

 

[22-rimfire]

So you claim I couldn't remember being 17-years-old? I purchased my first firearm when I was 18, maybe I forgot that too. Frankly SIR I don't like being called a liar. There was plenty of information available before the information age. The implication that I only heard about it after the advent of the net is insulting. Might I add, you know teachers. I guess that makes you an expert. I was a teacher and still hold a license. I guess you know more than I do.

IF I was insulting or "called you a liar", then I apologize. You took an observation about most 17 year old kids and an opinion as a personal attack. So be it.

I don't care when you purchased your first firearm. That certainly doesn't make you an expert or well informed. It just means you bought a firearm. When the 1994 AWB went into effect, I went out and bought an Uzi. Does that make me an Uzi expert?

All I can say is that you must have been a very special 17 year old kid being so well informed on politics and so worldly. For that I congratulate you. Most 17 year olds I know today barely know what year the Declaration of Independance was signed let alone what is happening today in the world of US politics. Most couldn't tell you who the Vice President of the US is or name one of their state's US Senators. They are very a worldy group in general.

 

[ol' scratch]

@ol scratch - - - - you started off with an Ad Hominem attack, that is an attack on the individual rather on specific points made, - in reference to Iserbyt. This is a logical fallacy. Such attacks shut down further inquiry.

As for Mr Gatto - he is extremely well known to those familiar with the history of education in the United States. The nature of education was purposely changed starting in the late 1890s to early 1900s. This was done by private monied interests through private foundations which they controlled. I suggest you read Mr. Gatto's book "Underground History of American Education". Earlier I provided the link to where you can do this online for free. Gatto provides sources (from those who have pursued this agenda) and his writing style is excellent.

I'm sorry, but you commit another error of logic when you state that your own personal ground level experience proves that there is no broader agenda in action regarding education. The specific does not necessarily apply to the broader picture. To be fair, however, you did say that you could not comment on that given your lack of specific knowledge in this area - particularly in regard to the work of Mr. Gatto.
An example of this type of error of logic, would be the account of a Vietnam war vet who said his personal experience on the ground proved that there was no broader agenda to get America into that war. He never saw such an agenda in action and he was an infantry grunt on the ground for more than a year. Well, the historical evidence is rather obvious today that President Johnson used false reports of 'attacks' on US Navy ships in the Gulf of Tonkin as an excuse to expand US participation in that war. This, despite the sincere protests of our infantry grunt whose personal experience was irrelevant to these matters.
Also, to be fair - I'm referring to education in much broader terms than just concerning how people may have been influenced regarding their views on guns. This is the topic of the thread, not this broader question.

BTW - I don't happen to be 'right wing' and I don't watch mainstream 'news' sources. I'd like to think I have come to outgrow the false 'left' versus 'right' paradigm of thinking. My attitudes on this changed years ago when I looked at this subject with an open mind, and came to see that both sides ended up supporting the same kinds of actions on the ground, despite their rhetoric. For example, 'conservatives' talked about fiscal soundness, but like spending tons of money on the military & expansion of government. 'Liberals' were all for peace, but supported multiple wars when 'their guy' in office was pushing them.

As supporters of the 2A and firearms enthusiasts, we are allies. We are on the same side on this issue. Its not my purpose to get into a 'pissing contest', to prove myself 'right' and you 'wrong'. My purpose is to introduce you to Gatto's work particularly, so that you may read it and with an open mind, decide for yourself. Several have thanked me for introducing them to material which had a profound impact on their way of viewing the world.
http://johntaylorgatto.com/underground/index.htm

Regards, - - -

I stand by what I said about Iserbyt and it is not a logical fallacy. Simply stating that a respondent is using a ad hominem fallacy doesn't make it true. I argue that Iserbyt is a conspiracy theorist and uses flawed logic in her academic pursuits. I don't think I need to go further than that. So let me be specific regarding Iserbyt and my problem with her. She uses the fallacy of the straw man and the slippery slope to support her claims. Everything is a huge conspiracy where she builds up and then attempts to break down with flawed logic. She uses some historical and modern examples in an attempt to make the reader believe her "theories" are factual so she can support her claims of a widespread and national conspiracy perpetuated in education. Everything done in a public school is presented as a conspiracy to further ignorance and hence increase control over the populous. Attacking her credentials (which you toted as a way of adding credibility to her claims) because she was relieved in less than a year from that job is not a logical fallacy when you use credentials in an attempt to add legitimacy to your argument. She has a blatant and extreme right wing political agenda which I dismiss as I do extreme left wing political agenda. I will provide a link to a recent article she wrote below proving her hard right stance. She is so mired in the fringe, she does interviews with Alex Jones. What I wrote might have come off as a little pointed concerning Iserbyt and that is my own bias shining through. I can't stand conspiracy theorists. Understand that I know about Iserbyt's body of work and I know her background. I ran across her book when doing research for a paper I was writing 5 years ago. She is not a creditable source. Concerning Gatto. You claim that you "only (got) a few school teachers to read the above." The implication is that you have recommended Gatto to other individuals who are not familiar with him. You then SEEM to attack my experience and education because I didn't know who he was by saying "he is extremely well known to those familiar with the history of education in the United States." You are contradicting yourself.

You attack my "personal ground level experience" as a logical fallacy without taking into account that that experience spans over ten years, two careers, two degree programs and a license. You weren't specific in which logical fallacy I supposedly committed in listing my background and using that as a measure to condemn the claim that there is a conspiracy to promote anti gun agenda in public schools. Instead, you used a red herring by giving an example of a soldier in Vietnam which was not relevant and adds no legitimacy to your claim. You weren't specific because I committed no logical fallacy. If there was a wide conspiracy I would have seen it. The original post asked, "With all the anti-gun propaganda and the anti-rights mentality being championed within our public schools these days, how did you avoid siding with the anti-gun line of thinking?" I attacked that original statement based on my personal, professional and academic experience. The original post asked for personal experiences.

There is no conspiracy and there certainly wasn't a curriculum. While not an active teacher (I am not that far removed from the profession, I changed careers two years ago.), I have friends who shoot and are teachers. They would have informed me about some new anti gun curriculum. My wife is a teacher and she likes to shoot. She would have informed me. Now as to bias. I never said there wasn't some bias in education, but by and large teachers are concerned with following state and in some cases federal standards. There are no standards that promote gun control. A personal bias in a classroom or even a school? Absolutely. That is apparent and irrefutable. That is not meant as a generalization. How can you combat those individual bias? Become involved in your child's education. The original post used words like propaganda and implied that there is some widespread nationwide agenda promoted in public schools to indoctrinate children to be anti gun. Nothing in my personal experience or information I have gleaned in my academic pursuits proves that theory. Do I think they have taken Federal and State Safe School Acts to extremes in some instances? Absolutely, but that is a far cry from proving a nationwide conspiracy. Do I think some educators promote anti gun propaganda? Sure, but I think by and large if a school does it is a reflection of the community at large. You are right that we are allies in our support of the 2A and concerning that issue we probably have much in common. Now, lets conclude our "long distance urination" contest. This is a gun board and The High Road after all. http://www.newswithviews.com/iserbyt/iserbyt120.htm

 

[raa-7]

My Father had guns when I was very young and he taught us. I grew up in the 60's and I don't remember any gun haters then. We grew up having guns around us and that was very normal . I cant really remember what my first gun was,, I think it might have been the 30-30 my father gave me .It was a Winchester model 94 I remember that ! No lie, lol

 

[raa-7]

I almost forgot,, I didn't side with the anti gun haters because I knew that in my life that guns were a very important tool and we all depend on them (how I was taught also) and for me it really was a "No Brainer"

 

[roadliner]

I didn't grow up in a "gun" household, but there wasn't negative vibe either. A gun was a tool that you needed or didn't, it wasn't evil. The people that were evil were the problem. My first time shooting a firearm was Boy Scouts, and I had purchased a .22 rifle by the time I was in High School. I've always been disappointed in how easy it is to sway people with propaganda, both left and right.

 

[simonstough]

I grew up outside of a small Ohio town, the only place that sold diesel fuel was a half hour drive, my whole family hunted and so did all my friends and a few of my teachers, nobody ever tried to tell us guns were bad and I didn't find out how anti my mom was until I tried teaching my daughter to shoot and I got called a bad parent. Now some of the guys I grew up with think guns are evil because they went to liberal arts colleges and it drives me nuts that they grew up on a farm in the country and hate guns.

 

[22-rimfire]

I grew up outside of a small Ohio town, the only place that sold diesel fuel was a half hour drive, my whole family hunted and so did all my friends and a few of my teachers, nobody ever tried to tell us guns were bad and I didn't find out how anti my mom was until I tried teaching my daughter to shoot and I got called a bad parent. Now some of the guys I grew up with think guns are evil because they went to liberal arts colleges and it drives me nuts that they grew up on a farm in the country and hate guns.

Interesting post. When I was in college, I dismissed any anti-gun talk as guns were a big part of my recreational life. But I saw the "hate" in others. My views then were more liberal and certainly I was very trusting of government. Give these young people time to find themselves and what matters to them.

 

[ol' scratch]

IF I was insulting or "called you a liar", then I apologize. You took an observation about most 17 year old kids and an opinion as a personal attack. So be it.

I don't care when you purchased your first firearm. That certainly doesn't make you an expert or well informed. It just means you bought a firearm. When the 1994 AWB went into effect, I went out and bought an Uzi. Does that make me an Uzi expert?

All I can say is that you must have been a very special 17 year old kid being so well informed on politics and so worldly. For that I congratulate you. Most 17 year olds I know today barely know what year the Declaration of Independance was signed let alone what is happening today in the world of US politics. Most couldn't tell you who the Vice President of the US is or name one of their state's US Senators. They are very a worldy group in general.

Apology accepted, but it sure seemed sarcastic because then you continued to stereotype people today who are 17-years-old. I would argue that there are a great number of people who are of voting age who don't know who the vice president is or who their State Senators or Representatives in the House are. I don't think that adds any validity to your apparent argument that all 17-year-old kids don't care about national or world events. The AWB wasn't a world event, but I guess I am nitpicking. Part of the reason I remember it so well is because it was the beginning of what would be a catalyst that would help shape my present day political ideology. It was the first time in my life that I became aware of the Federal government or how they could effect my life. I mentioned when I purchased my first firearm to prove a point. I was actively reading about this issue. Even the local paper carried a piece about it. In the weeks to follow it was something that really bothered my little community. I am not joking when I tell you the deer rifle of choice in my county was the SKS rifle. I knew a kid in 8th grade who loved "his" Russian SKS and would talk about how many deer he took with it. It was one firearm the left went about demonizing and categorizing (one of MANY) as an Assault Weapon. So while my dad and uncle were not overly concerned, I was personally concerned as were many people in the community. After the bill passed there was quite a bit of disbelief. We were pretty isolated.

 

[JB357MAG]

Grew up with guns in the house, thought that's
how everyone in America lived.

In the 70's my Dad traded his Colt Python 4" nickle
for a motorcycle for me..........oops!

Jimmy

 

[mgmorden]

I grew up hunting. Until late high school early college I wasn't even AWARE that there was an "anti-gun" stance, and by that time it made about as much sense as hearing that someone was anti-ice cream.

Strangely enough though I wasn't raised by "gun people". My dad owned about a half-dozen guns, and used them almost exclusively for hunting. He actually considered target practice as "wasting bullets". That kind of instilled very much so that the "gun as a tool" mentality. It wasn't until I became an adult myself that I got more into guns in and of themselves.

 

[kBob]

First you have to remember I was raised in the Other LA, "Lower Alabama" or "Baja Georgia" that is to say North Florida, which happens to be the most southern part of the state despite its location.

Got my first "Double B" gun before starting first grade ( before the first Mercury flights) and learned to shoot it using as targets unfiltered Chester field packs of my Papa and a few Lucky Strikes unfiltered packs of my Dad's be fore he at least quit. Dad's brother saw I liked shooting and was good at it and so gave me a Daisy air pistol that summer.

Mom's mom was upset by the handgun and remained not happy about handguns all her life. No problem apparently with long arms, but a handgun was used to murder her beloved brother in D.C. during the very last of prohibition and she was set against them for life.

By the fall of the year I was in forth grade I was hunting tree rats alone with either a .22 bolt action single shot or a .410 single. Mostly the .410 for while the .22 was cheaper and more fun, I seldom took a shot that did not bring down a tree rat with the .410. On more than one occasion I dropped two with one shot when they were playing chase the tail and once 3. Made me feel very proud to be trusted with a gun and to bring home meat for the family table. Papa was a butcher so meat was no problem, but still those critters were ones I brought home.

I shot in scouts to work on the marksmanship merit badge (BTW The Boy's troop had the highest rifle score average at last weeks local district jamboree)

About that time my dad remembered how good I had been with and how much fun I had with Uncle Mikes BB pistol and got me a Daisy CO2 200. Besides CO2 I also used the short agricultural NO cylinders and at least one person locally opined that I was getting a whippet rush every time I shoot the CO 2 200 as positive reinforcement. I don't think so.......

As the debates leading to GCA '68 were in progress, I heard the anti arguments, read the editorials and even listened to one or two teachers that thought "something has to be done." Learned quick there was no point as a teen arguing with closed "adult" minds and that folks for gun control were for other nasty things as well.

At 14 I got involved in High School Junior Reserve Officers Training Corps. Beside promising to get us in at the enlisted rank of e3 PFC rather than Private E1 Recruit the first day (there was the draft then and a war on) there was the opportunity to shoot. Most shooting was with Remmie 513T and Winchester 52D rifles and ammo was "free" as it were so the rifle team was attractive to say the least. I was occasionally encouraged to bring my Ruger RST 4 to school when classes on handguns were to be had to allow folks to shoot a .22 pistol as that was all the backstops would handle officially (actually worked with .32 ACP from a neighbors Walther PP and a few lead round nose .38 Specials from various revolvers, but .45ACP hard ball from our issue 1911A1s did bad things to the little steel traps) Though un official by the time I left high school I had shot the M-1 Garand, M-14, M-16 A1, 1911A1 and M60 GPMG. I had a M-1 carbine of my own and shot it anytime I could. During this period we made national news/editorials by teaching some high school boys to use the bayonet.

By the time I went in the Army the first time as a well trained E3 PFC I was thoroughly "progun". Since I have been active in progun activities and will occasionally quietly show an anti to be a fool, face to face, on the editorial pages, or across a debate stage, on electronic media ,or in the halls of government.

-kBob

 

[Kleanbore]

"A Gun is a Tool, Marion."

I was about Joey's age when I saw this.

 

[22-rimfire]

ol'scatch: Yes, I did sterotype most or many 17 year olds based on my personal experience. You will notice I did not say "all 17 year olds". They are just begining their adult life and are all about ideals. (I was.) 17 year olds and young people in general need time to flesh out their beliefs. Some beliefs will become stronger and some will be dismissed as impractical in the real world.

The educational system has a huge impact on a young person's development. My grandson takes his teacher's opinions as gospel, and would dismiss mine at least on the surface. I know that he listens. I know that I have an influence on him. It was the same with my parents. I listened, but seldom acknowledged that they were actually right. Tis the life of a teenager....

As far as being sarcastic, I do tend to be a bit sarcastic in general, but mean no slight by it. I do try to minimize gross generalizations in my posts as they are almost always incorrect.

I mentioned that I purchased an Uzi, I did, but it was actually after Bush froze imports of the weapon which preceeded the Clinton AWB. I didn't buy special firearms as a result of the ban. So, I got my time line a bit off with regard to the Uzi. I actually didn't care much for that rifle but they became very valuable. Sold it eventually.

That was when you could buy SKS's for about $100. Times change. They made an adequate "deer rifle" if you wanted something cheap and certainly if you wanted to butt heads with the hunting establishment of the time. AK's were in the $150 area then.

 

[Sniper66]

I grew up in the 50s and 60s and went to college in the late 60s and early 70s. I recall nothing about anti-gun for private use. Everyone I grew up with owned guns and most hunted. Of course some of the 60s antiwar sentiment gave rise to a general theme of anti-violence and guns got lumped in with that. But, in general, I recall no anti-gun sentiment until the 80s.

 

[wojownik]

Yep, NYC area, VA now, moving again soon. NY is the greatest place on earth if you have one set of priorities/world-view, or one of the worst if you have a different world-view. Firearms were an enormous taboo - this was the 70s and 80s.

I had various relatives, friends, acquaintances involved in law enforcement growing up (NYPD, NYSP) - all were firmly of the opinion that firearms should only be in the hands of LE personnel. I took this as gospel, as it was the only point of view I heard growing up. My father once considered getting a firearm, but he was visibly perturbed coming out of the local police precinct inquiring what the process was (remember, this was pre-internet). IIRC, he asked a simple question, and then started getting grilled by the desk officer. We had a daisy BB gun, and I recall that was kept as securely as many people keep a firearm (actually, still not a bad idea with rambunctious kids in the house).

I soon realized that NYC was a different world from much of the rest of the country back then. And it's become even more of a parallel universe over the past decade (what with attempted big-soda bans and all...). But I do so miss the pizza.

wojownik - - - thanks for relating that. Many of us knew it was bad in some parts of the country, but not that bad

Did you grow up in NYC ? (Hope you don't mind my asking. You mentioned 'a borough'.) You state your location as 'the Old Dominion', are you in Virginia now ? A more 2A friendly place ?

The conditions you described are nothing short of pure Soviet style propaganda. Not even close to an even handed examination of facts and logical, open minded debate of the issues.

Quite chilling.

If pro 2A now, how was your thinking changed ?

Regards, - - -

I grew up in a borough of a major city, no guns in the house, and believed (well was taught to believe), that firearms were only for policemen and the military.

Even in high school, during government class (one of the few schools that still had such a class in HS), one teacher skipped right over the 2nd Amendment (a sub teacher - the principal - covered 2A as applying to the military only). The one neighbor who showed us kids his rifles (old rusted, pretty much non-functional relics) acted like he was showing us some big nasty secret ... that even having these things were "wrong".

Even in college - during debate class - we were randomly assigned partners and allowed to choose debate topics. The girl I was working with (a stunner) wanted to choose the 2A as a topic (I frankly would have agreed to anything she suggested). The professor summarily dismissed the topic as inappropriate for classroom debate, and told us to pick another.

One could not avoid anti-gun thinking - there were no alternatives. "Conform or be cast out" as the song from Rush goes...

 

[we are not amused]

My Father was a wounded in action veteran of the European Theater. Specifically, he was wounded in Germany.

He participated in clearing villages of German infantry, and clearing occupied German villages of all weapons, no matter what their age or provenance. He was critically wounded in an ambush while clearing a German village.

Despite the fact he was a lifelong Democrat, he was utterly opposed to gun control. It was what you did to a conquered enemy, not your own Citizens!

I wasn't going to argue with him.