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Assailant dead after killing two at Irvine supermarket, with sword (merged threads)

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by bfason, Jun 29, 2003.

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  1. bfason

    bfason Member

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    Assailant dead after killing two at Irvine supermarket

    Article here.

    Clearly, we need some sword control. All knives should be registered so that this kind of thing doesn't happen again.



    -----------------------
    There is no fate except what we make.
     
  2. 10-Ring

    10-Ring Member

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    Same arguments apply. We don't need more rules, just better application of existing ones!
     
  3. jsalcedo

    jsalcedo Member

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    The cop stopped the crazed sword wielding manic with an AR 15.

    Don't bring a sword to a gunfight.
     
  4. BerettaNut92

    BerettaNut92 Member

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    :barf: so much for our top 10 safest cities in America title :barf:

    It's a different Albertson's that the one I shop at. Glad I carry now, even if "dude, it's Irvine...."
     
  5. TheeBadOne

    TheeBadOne Member

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    Aren't we going to have someone questioning why the Police have AR 15's? ;)
     
  6. Jim March

    Jim March Member

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    How many here, knowing some lunatic was running around with a sword in a friggin' grocery store, would head for wherever they kept brooms or similar, break the brush off, and rush into the fight? Assuming no gun, of course.

    I'm serious. How many?

    I'm pretty sure I would.

    Be dangerous but hell, you only live once.

    A gun would be damned handy though :).
     
  7. Delmar

    Delmar Member

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    If the fool had watched Indiana Jones, he would have known not to bring a sword to a gunfight!
     
  8. CGofMP

    CGofMP Member

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    California Gun Control WORKED

    The guy did some damage INSTEAD with a sword... (ahem allegedly)

    Story Here


    IRVINE — A Santa Ana man wielding a sword killed two people and injured three others before he was shot and killed by police today at Albertson's supermarket, 3931 Irvine Blvd., authorities said.

    Police were called to the scene at 9:36 a.m., responding to reports that a man was attacking people with a large, sharp object. There were 30 to 40 customers and employees in the store at the time. Police identified the assailant as Joe Parker of Santa Ana, a former employee of the store. He was shot by police and died at Western Medical Center in Santa Ana.


    click link above for full story.
    -----------

    Why am I reminded of the scene in Raiders Of The Lost Ark and the thought .... "what if one grocery store customer had his trusty 1911...."

    But of course we are in california where nothing like this is possible since guns are drop tested and banned in public for your protection and CCWs are almost non-existant.
    :banghead:

    Charles


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  9. Mark Tyson

    Mark Tyson Member

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    Did you make that "join or die" picture at the bottom of your post? I like it.
     
  10. XLMiguel

    XLMiguel Member

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    I heard about this on the news driving home last night, and the first thought thru my mind was, "too bad there wasn't an armed citizen in the store . . .", followed by, "Damn, it was in CA."

    No dis to the local constabulary, but it is an operative example of the fact that the cops can't be everywhere, and even with a reasonably quick response, two died, one was injured. It also begs the question of why can't teh populace have weap[ons, when the solution to the situation is calling someone with a gun to save teh day????

    While I can't say with certainty that the presence of an armed citizen would have changed things, in that a guy with a sword can do mayhem pretty quickly, but OTOH, there's also the chance that he never would have gotten started. At any rate, I know how I would bet.
     
  11. CB900F

    CB900F Member

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    Fella's;

    Just another confirmation that the weapon is between the ears, anything else is a tool. There is nothing to say that if he'd been able to get a firearm, that he would not have used one. Why didn't he have one? Don't know, any number of reasons are possible.

    If Kali were firearms friendly or the same situation happened in Florida, I doubt that the results would have been much different. Two killed, one wounded, right? In Kali, with the sword, his reach is limited to his foot speed & the length of the blade. People can, & i'm sure did, run away. The cops took some minutes to get there & shoot him.

    Reason it the other way 'round, in Florida he has a semi-auto pistol & starts shooting in a market. Kills two & wounds one before somebody in the store puts him down with their own gun.

    Would it happen exactly the same way? Of course not. But similar enough to make it a wash in my book.

    900F
     
  12. PenHolder

    PenHolder Member

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    Am I the only one who, when reading one of these stories, breathes a little sigh of relief in spite of himself? After reading the title, before I even reached the body, I couldn't help but think: "Thank goodness he didn't use a gun!" Our esteemed Legislature seems like a time-bomb, just waiting for any excuse (or hey, an election) to ram more gun control down our throats.

    True to form, just as with the "I'd rather be raped or killed than own a gun!" pacifists, the folks involved wasted no time calling over people with guns -- assault weapons, even -- to save their bacon. Once a couple of folks with guns showed up, the maniac stopped double-quick. I'll have to go do the math on that one.

    Jim:

    You're a better man than I. Unless I witnessed very poor technique on his part, I'd probably just run as far the hell away as I could from him. I haven't trained for close-in combat against that type of attack, and a sword or machete has a formidable reach. I imagine one could hack through a broom handle in a swipe or two. If conditions were favorable (perhaps being seperated by some waist to chest high cover), I might give the wacko a good shot of OC before I beat feet; I'd want the cover to slow him down for a few paces in case the OC didn't have much effect, giving me the time to turbo the heck out of there.

    This is going to sound cold, but unless me and mine were at risk in the store, or I could help stop the wacko with minimal risk, I'm inclined to just run. The folks in the store are a big part of the reason I don't have the option of taking an aimed shot from cover: they vote for disarmed victims, and disarmed victims they get. Nobody deserves to get hacked apart by a maniac, but I resent that they've forced their decision to be unprepared onto me.

    Maybe incidents like these will serve as a "clue-stick" and wake more folks up to the idea of personal protection; that they're not magically safe just because they live in snooty Irvine.

    *sigh*, who am I kidding?

    "Cue Standing Wolf!"

    -PH
     
  13. WonderNine

    WonderNine member

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    Penholder, you think you could live with yourself running away after witnessing a guy hacking people up? I know I couldn't. I don't know if you're disabled or what your physical condition is, but if you were unarmed yourself and "just carrying some OC spray" like you said, wouldn't you be one of those very same people who has delegated the responsibility of their own safety onto others?

    In a grocery store hell there's a ton of things you could use as weapons. Throw a fricken heavy can or a watermelon at their head or fight them with a steel display sign. Pick up the nearest heavy object and throw it at their head.

    Yes, I've watched too many kickboxer movies.
     
  14. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

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    A man with an eeevil assault rifle saved the day. Thank Goodness he wore blue polyester otherwise the Caliban would have to justify their disarming policies.:rolleyes:

    Good point, Skunk. People tell me the same thing. "But, Kirk, what are you worried about in West Lafayette. A crazed research engineer? A biochemist with a broken beaker?" I look at them and smile--you never know. Be prepared for trouble and you will not have any.
     
  15. cordex

    cordex Member

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    Only questioning why those tools are denied to non-LEOs in California. His particular tool may well be denied to just-folks elsewhere too.

    El Tejon,
    If'n I see a biochemist running around loony with a broken beaker, I'm going to practice the Way of the Receeding Foot because it's likely something I can't fight with pistol, rifle or shotgun.
     
  16. Al Thompson

    Al Thompson Moderator Emeritus

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    I'd like to think that I would do "something" other than "observe and report".

    One of the places I work has a no weapons policy - even for the security folks. I like to keep a mental note on fire extinguisher locations - they're not pepper spray, but a face/lung full of soda bicarb is reportedly pretty nasty.
     
  17. Tamara

    Tamara Senior Member

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    Al,

    ...and a whack on the melon with the empty would probably suck pretty bad, too. :D
     
  18. BerettaNut92

    BerettaNut92 Member

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    I lived in Irvine for 5 years when I went to school. OC is a CCW-friendly county, by the way, even if the city of Irvine has a utopian HUA mentality towards guns, many of the popo are pro-gun.

    I gotta swing by Ralph's after work today. You can bet your butt Grace is comin' along.
     
  19. Delmar

    Delmar Member

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    How about a face full of Raid Yard Guard, a bucket of bleach, or go to the automotive section and get a bag of hammers? A grocery store is not a place to take everyone on with an oversized can opener. Too many weapons around, and right on the shelves.
     
  20. Aikibiker

    Aikibiker Member

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    Given the way I am wired, I probably would do something foolish. Perhaps even with a broom handle since I have a little training in ken-tai-jo (Aikido exercises using a short staff to defend against a sword).

    This goes double if kids are involved.

    That said I would prefer to have my pistol handy for such an occasion. (thank you FL and your shall issue laws)
     
  21. CZ-75

    CZ-75 member

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    No, but when you bring a sword to a gunfight, any decent caliber firearm will do, particularly a shotgun. Just because the cop killed the perp with one doesn't mean that he needed an AR-15.
     
  22. BerettaNut92

    BerettaNut92 Member

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    Rule #2 of a gunfight: bring a long gun. Bring friends with long guns, which they did.
     
  23. PenHolder

    PenHolder Member

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    TheeBadOne:

    I only gripe and moan when I see cops here with AR-15s because we ordinary citizens are prohibited from buying them. If they're really just designed "not to be aimed, but to be spray-fired from the hip", to "kill as many people as possible in a short amount of time", these "bullet hoses" have no place in the hands of those who would Serve and Protect. There seems to be some cognitive dissonance on the part of our Legislature and populace. Personally, I like them, though I've only been able to fire one once.


    WonderNine:

    I'm young and physically able, though a bit on the small side. I haven't delegated squat; I'm unarmed because the law prohibits me from going armed, and I'm one of those "nice guys" that obeys the law even though I disagree with it.

    I've seen some good suggestions for grocery-store stuff to engage the guy with. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't be cowering in the corner wetting myself. I certainly would be in favor of beaning the goblin with anything at hand (mmm... soup cans...) But, I wouldn't do so without something besides clear floor between us (perhaps a good obstacle like some checkstands), and as soon as his attention switched to me I'd be out that door in a heartbeat, since I don't doubt for a second that nobody in the store would lift a finger to help me. The "Todd Beamers" in the population are just too sparse, at least out here in the Golden State. I wouldn't close to within 15yd of a guy weilding a machete who had just offed several people. No, no, and hell no. Not unless a loved one is next.

    It's too bad Skunky wasn't in line with his 92G. The "Goin' Tactical" video comes to mind... :D

    -PH
     
  24. STW

    STW Member

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    I'm sorry but this couldn't have happened. You see, it is illegal to carry a sword in California. :evil:
     
  25. bogie

    bogie Member

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    This was a weird news weekend...

    I mean, we have 50-something folks cramming onto a third story balcony in Chicago, and then wondering why it suddenly decides that gravity is the law?

    I'm sorry, but I'll bet the thing wasn't designed to hold one ton, much less 2.5-5 tons... And I'll bet there were folks bouncing around and joking too.

    Darwin was right.
     
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