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Assaulted: Civil Rights Under Fire - Documentary

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by DeadPatriot, Sep 11, 2012.

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  1. DeadPatriot

    DeadPatriot Member

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    CesiumSponge - thanks for the research.

    Zerro45 - I promise it will.

    Franchisimo - about 20 so far. Anita and I spend all our free time answering posts - it great to have all this positive feedback!

    MistWolf - Yes. Amen.
     
  2. ugaarguy

    ugaarguy Moderator Staff Member

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    The dealer can list up to five firearms on a single 4473. So, yes, one NICS check can, and very often does (from personal experience in firearms retail) satisfy multiple firearms that are part of a single purchase by the same person. The NICS check numbers also exclude the substantial number of purchases made by carry permit holders in states where the carry permit background check procedure is more extensive than the NICS check, and therefor serves as a NICS exemption.
     
  3. Cesiumsponge

    Cesiumsponge Member

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    I'm hoping you get to incorporate some credible testimony from industry experts and law enforcement on stopping power and mystical one-shot stops. Many in the anti-gun movement would argue a single shot flintock is more than enough to stop an advancing criminal. Many in law enforcement often undergo undue criticism from the laypublic for firing "excessively" because the laypublic has been conditioned to believe the Hollywood depiction of death by firearm as quick and simple (as well as other myths like Wild West violence, etc).

    Using this mindset, they crafted the modern layman's idea of assault weapons and the adjective "semi-automatic" as a lethality modifier to handgun and rifles which are 50-100+ years old in design. When you ask a layperson on the streets, these terms set off a deep emotional upwelling as a response, not a logical one. Even the lawmakers are guilty, as you pointed out in the trailer with the infamous Carolyn "shoulder thing that goes up" MCcarthy, crafter of the 1994 AWB. The evidence for a pro-2a case is overwhelming but packaging it tactfully to an audience of hopefully open-minded fence sitters will be a difficult task. I wish you the best of luck!

    Does anyone here recall a few years ago there was unearthed footage from the floor vote on the 1968 GCA amendment that rammed through and the vote seemed questionable? I can't seem to turn it up and researching on a phone is slow.
     
  4. DeadPatriot

    DeadPatriot Member

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    Hi, this is Anita, the other half of DeadPatriot. Cesium, and OwenSparks, thank you very much for this information. I am going over it now. I can see I have a helluva lotta research to do but it sure is great to have your kind help! Thanks!
     
  5. wild cat mccane

    wild cat mccane Member

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    Statistical analysis shows those states with CCW laws correlate (positive R) to higher murder rates.

    Does CCW cause higher death rates or are CCW given more to states with higher murder rates?

    That is easily answered by looking not at cross sectional data but panel data for state murder rates.


    sorry, but CCW does not mean a safer state. That is pretty well documented by statistical analysis and forgotten by the NRA.
     
  6. Tommygunn

    Tommygunn Member

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    Sorry, but Professors Lott, Mustard, and Professor Gary Kleck would disagree with you....and their research has been pretty exhaustive.
     
  7. HEAVY METAL 1

    HEAVY METAL 1 Member

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  8. wild cat mccane

    wild cat mccane Member

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    No. Gun control wasn't crafted after nazi policy.

    Actually, the professors (funny how some gun people academia them until they say something that supports their cause) aren't widely cited. You can easily find out how I know this.

    Go to google. Go to scholar. Look them up. It will say how often they are cited by other peer reviewed articles.



    Take my state, Utah. We have some of the most lax rules on the book. Our murder by gun is higher than...MA with the most strict (for example).
     
  9. Derry 1946

    Derry 1946 Member

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    You may find this article useful:
    http://www.guncite.com/journals/vandhist.html#fn142
    Hopefully, the link works. It gives an overview of gun control (and other weapons bans) under early kings of England through the British colonial period and the founding of the USA. It emphasizes the role of the common people as a militia against foreign invasion and repression by the government, as an alternative and an antidote to the perils of a standing army, which was seen as a potential tool of domestic tyranny. This gives some historical context to the 2A " militia" language that often trips up the casual reader (which is compounded by primitive grammar). Good luck.
     
  10. Tommygunn

    Tommygunn Member

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    The Nazis passed a gun law in 1938 that imposed a "sporting test" on civilian possession of guns. This was copied by Senator Christopher Dodd (father of the later politician) and was incorporated into the Gun Control Act of 1968.
    The history of this is well-known and researched.
     
  11. HEAVY METAL 1

    HEAVY METAL 1 Member

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    Thank you TG! I wasn't peeking out from under the tinfiol when I posted about the Nazis. The GCA is nearly parallel to the Nazi act. The congressman requested the Nazi Gun Act from the Lib of Congress, THAT's on record.

    I think that needs to be exposed more widely.
     
  12. Librarian

    Librarian Member

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    I suggest that is not a usable measure.

    Academics who support gun control, in the last 40 or so years, outnumber those who offer evidence against its efficacy. They would hardly cite with approval papers which undermine their own hypotheses.

    For counter examples, see http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10tbl20.xls - relative 'laxness' of firearms laws does not correlate at all with the rate of homicide using firearms.

    See also WISQARS, select Homicide, firearm, group by state - for 2009, UT is lower than MA, and so are Iowa, Idaho, Hawaii, Minnesota, Maine, South Dakota, Rhode Island and Oregon.

    California is reputed to have very strict laws, but is 29th, higher than Nebraska, Washington, Wisconsin, Wyoming, Colorado, Montana, Connecticut, Alaska, New York, New Jersey, Kentucky, West Virginia, Ohio, Kansas, Virginia, Arizona, Nevada, Indiana and Pennsylvania (as well as Massachusetts and those noted as lower than MA).
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2012
  13. wannabeagunsmith

    wannabeagunsmith Member

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    Glad you mentioned the LA Riots in there. That was one of the Second Amendment's finest moments.
     
  14. DeadPatriot

    DeadPatriot Member

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    This is Terrific! Thank you all for the research, debates, and ideas. We are processing as much as we can. Keep it coming, it will help us make a quality documentary. I am copying everything so we can include all the facts and figures in the film.
    You guys are the best!
    Anita
     
  15. Sav .250

    Sav .250 Member

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    Are you an NRA member?
     
  16. bergmen

    bergmen Member.

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    I would recommend this article:

    http://www.baen.com/GettingGunsRight.asp

    being discussed here:

    http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=677544

    Dan
     
  17. Cesiumsponge

    Cesiumsponge Member

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    "benEzra" posted more data on an unrelated thread. I thought I'd include it here. The FBI also keeps Uniform Crime Reports and makes a lot of data available on their website if you have time to poke around. Here is a breakdown of deaths by state and firearm type for 2010. http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10tbl20.xls

    Since the "assault rifle" topic keeps coming up in popular culture as the best place to start with gun bans, we have his pesky data:

    Total murders............................................12,996.....100.00%
    Handguns.......................................................6,009......46.24%
    Firearms (type unknown)..............................2,035......15.66%
    Other weapons (non-firearm, non-edged)...1,772......13.63%
    Edged weapons..............................................1,704......13.11%
    Hands, feet, etc..................................................745.......5.73%
    Shotguns.............................................................373.......2.87%
    Rifles...................................................................358.......2.75%

    Simply, ALL rifles combined (including assault weapons, hunting rifles, collectible rifles, competition rifles, and perhaps even blackpowder rifles) resulted in the smallest statistical category of all means used to commit murder. You are over 200% more likely to be murdered with hands and feet or close to 500% more likely to be murdered by hand-held, non-edged weapons like clubs or hammers. "Other" might also include poisoning, immolation, etc. It isn't clear.

    That really puts the "assault weapons" issue into perspective when compared to all other possible means. It's always pitched to reduce gun crime but shows it would make absolutely no statistically significant difference. The data doesn't split rifles into subtypes, but I suspect "assault weapons" make up a small number of that 2.75% of rifles used in murders. These are all direct government figures that aren't taken out of context or cooked in a way to suggest a biased agenda, so no one can claim its been spun by a,pro-gun organization like the NRA or anti-gun organization like the Brady Campaign or Ceasefire.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2012
  18. michaelbsc

    michaelbsc Member

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  19. Cesiumsponge

    Cesiumsponge Member

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    It's going to be mighty hard fitting all this into one documentary. Hopefully the crew can get a tightly focused message out and maybe put out future installments.

    Here is an interview of Kris Koenig on GOA radio. He is going to present both sides and do this from a scientific, logical, rational point of view without making anyone look foolish or taking soundbytes out of context:
    https://www.yousendit.com/dl?phi_ac..._download%26batch_id%3DTEhXNWNnQ3Q1aWIwZXNUQw
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2012
  20. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Member

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    Sen. Thomas Dodd ("father" of the GCA) was father of Sen Chris Dodd (not the other way 'round).

    I remember how exasperating Thomas J. Dodd's arguments were to me.

    When I was growing up in the 1950s and 1960s criminals in my neighborhood got guns illegally by unregulatable channels like fences, smugglers, bootleggers and dope dealers--people who dealt in contraband. AS confirmed by Wright and Rossi in their analysis of the NIJ felon survey in the mid 1980s. Criminals are least likely to affected by gun control; it is those of us who are law abiding who are most affected by gun laws.
     
  21. denton

    denton Member

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    My professional work involves a lot of practical statistics. Here is an article that I wrote a while back (2002??) that might help:

    http://armsandthelaw.com/archives/brady_effectiveness.pdf

    If you need help with statistical analysis, I can spare an hour or two.

    Family Anecdote:

    I'm an avid shooter, but one of my adult daughters has been pretty gun averse. She would just barely tolerate my son-in-law's hunting firearms in the house.

    One day they left for church, and one of the children left the rear patio door open. When they came home, their computer, camera, checkbook, and spare keys were all missing. Next morning while my son-in-law locked their accounts, I changed the locks and installed industrial strength deadbolts.

    A couple of nights later, she heard something in the back yard, and looked out her bedroom window to see that the thieves had returned, and were trying the old keys in the new locks. She went flying down the stairs to their teenage daughter's room, while my son-in-law headed for the younger children's rooms.

    Halfway down the stairs, she realized that if they did get in, she had absolutely no physical defense.

    Next morning, she demanded and got my wife's spare 38 Special, along with a microwave oven size safe to keep little hands away from the firearm. It was really kind of sweet to see her get in touch with her inner momma bear. Today, she would put two rounds in an intruder's center of mass without an instant of hesitation.

    Good luck with your project. I'll look forward to seeing it.
     
  22. doc2rn

    doc2rn Member

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    One might want to look at how the gun confiscation durring Hurricane Katrina went. There are some pretty ugly scenes and stories to be told about that incident.
     
  23. Tommygunn

    Tommygunn Member

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    Right. They say the memory is the first thing to go. I forget the second thing.:uhoh:

    :evil:
     
  24. DeadPatriot

    DeadPatriot Member

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    Yes, Kris is a Life Member.
     
  25. DeadPatriot

    DeadPatriot Member

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