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At what point should you STOP talking to an LEO during a traffic stop or at home??

Discussion in 'Legal' started by JLStorm, Jan 12, 2007.

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  1. cropcirclewalker

    cropcirclewalker member

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    Last time I got pulled over was 2004. DWP. Ten PM west bound on K68 headed for and about 15 miles outa Ottawa KS. Missouri plates. Being Kansas it was windy. I was driving an '87 chevy pickup with real bad paint (factory flaw). Low milage but you would never know.

    Wifey was letting me take her and new lab puppy to purchase a floor loom (old and big but with a good price)

    The seat was full of wives and puppies so I put my .44 Bulldog up on the dash. I don't usually drive with it on the dash, but I wanted to make sure that leo knew that I was armed.

    The Dome light didn't work, but I rolled down the window and had my DL and proof of insurance between my fingers of my left hand which, along with the right, was firmly grasped to the steering wheel.

    A young looking statie comes up behind at the port quarter with hand on piece and flashlight at the ready. Quick light into the empty bed. Nothing there but one of those dog carrying cases.

    "I saw you weaving a little, Sir" (the usual pretense for pulling over someone who is Driving While Poor)(it WAS windy though), "Have you had anything to drink tonight?" Flashlight darts hither and yawn inside the truck. Stops briefly on the Bulldog, (not the Lab, the .44 Bulldog).

    "No, sir.", I says as I hand him my papers.

    As he walks back to his car, Wifey says, "You should have seen his eyes get big when he shined his light on your gun," Wifey doesn't know about the finer points of shootin' irons. She calls them "Guns".

    Time passes.......

    Statie comes back, hands me my papers, says, "Is that pistol loaded?"

    This is where I usually fight back the urge to say, "What, Are you STUPID?" But so far I have restrained myself due to the fear of being shot, so I say, "Yes, sir."

    He goes on to 'splain that open carry in KS is fully legal except that some municipalities have ordinances prohibiting it (Ottawa doesn't, to my knowledge) and that I would be better if I put the piece in the glove box.

    I say, "Yes, sir, thank you."

    He goes away.

    My total expenditure of words..........8

    It has been my experience that State Troopers are the cream of the crop when it comes to leos. Perhaps this encounter is one of the reasons I think so.

    If he had thowed down on me and wifey, shot my puppy, called for backup, (He was alone) felony stopped me, handcuffs, face on the concrete, K9 dogs sniffing my puppy, and all like that, my expenditure of words would have been much less.

    I have respect for some of these guys that sign up thinking that they are doing a service to the public. What I have trouble with is the fact that they have been hornswaggled. Without the WoSD these guys would be relegated to directing traffic around accidents and Hay Bale/Cattle Truck spills and leading interference for EMTs and Firetrucks.

    As well intentioned as they are, as competent as they are and try to be...they are still just an occupying force.

    Sorry, that's the way I see it.
     
  2. langenc

    langenc Member

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    I dont know an exact answer to your question but would offer the followinmg.

    When the LEO has checked license, CPL etc and gives them back and sometimes ask-"May I look around"?

    The answer is "AM I FREE TO LEAVE"? The answer will have to be YES-Drive off..

    No fishing expeditions and waiving your 4th rights.

    This is from the Wall Street Journal about 10 years ago. Tell your teens/college age kids and wife.
     
  3. ProguninTN

    ProguninTN Member

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    Avoiding Harassment

    I would think the best away to avoid problems, is don't speed or drive drunk. Also, keep your registration current. (Don't give them reasonable suspicion to stop you.) If it's a checkpoint, or you get stopped anyway, keep your mouth shut. It may even do some good to have names of some attorneys handy.
     
  4. cassandrasdaddy

    cassandrasdaddy Member

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    ProguninTn

    Surely you aren'y advocating being personally responsible and behaving yourself! what an anachronistic attitude! they are gonna send you off to reeducation camp. if people did what you suggest where would the drama come from? how could they place the blame for their own failings on somene else if the did what you suggest. :evil:
     
  5. tellner

    tellner member

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    Don't speed. Don't drink and drive. Keep the tags current. Leave the bong at home.

    True, very true.

    But I was stopped about a dozen times when I lived in West Linn. It never happened when I was near home. It never happened in Portland. It never happened in Oregon City or Milwaukie. But it happened pretty regularly when I drove the highway through high-priced Lake Oswego, also known as "Lake No Negroes". Never got a ticket. Never got charged with anything. Never cited or fined. It was always "driving erratically" or "headlight out". Strangely enough, when I turned the headlights on they came on just fine. And it was always when I was driving an old and much used Ford pickup. Driving the wife's Subaru? Never a problem.

    Funny that...
     
  6. Aguila Blanca

    Aguila Blanca Member

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    I'm sorry, but no.

    My attorney has advised me never to allow anyone to search me or my property without a warrant.

    I don't know, exactly. Why do you ask?

    Is my destination pertinent to the reason why you stopped me?

    Because I felt like it, and because doing so isn't illegal.

    Driving. {Or "walking," as the case may be}

    I'm sorry, my attorney has advised me not to answer questions such as that.

    My attorney has advised me never to allow anyone to search me or my property without a warrant.
     
  7. jay43

    jay43 Member

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    Lets give some leos a break. Yes I will agree that there are some a$$es who abuse there power. But I think a magority of them are just doing there job. They don't know who they are pulling over late at night, It could be an average law abiding Joe, or some junkie lit up on pcp wanted in 5 states. We've all seen the videos of the troopers walking up to a car and getting blasted, and lets not get into the fact that its post 9-11, that has changed everything. I mean Leos are $crewed from the get go. If there presence is felt to often in say an inner city they are accuse of profiling and such, but if they back of and crime goes up the outcries for more law enforcement fly. They are dammed if they do and dammed if they dont
     
  8. Derby FALs

    Derby FALs Member In Memoriam

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    They volunteered. FLEX YOUR RIGHTS
     
  9. ProguninTN

    ProguninTN Member

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    cassandrasdaddy

    I guess if you hear kicking and screaming, I guess you can tell everyone here at THR: "Don't worry, it's just ProguninTN being dragged off to reeducation camp." :D
     
  10. cassandrasdaddy

    cassandrasdaddy Member

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    shoot

    if they get me first i want top bunk but you can have the window.
     
  11. ProguninTN

    ProguninTN Member

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    cassandrasdaddy

    lol :D :D :D
     
  12. TEX

    TEX Member

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    I know a lot of cops and even have a few in the family and most of them are pretty stand up folks. My advice is as follows;

    1.Be polite, respectful and courteous. This alone will get you a lot of mileage.

    2.Answer questions simply and directly without adding any unnecessary comments. Make sure your answers are truthful. Lying to a Cop can sometimes be a crime in itself, especially at a federal level.

    3.Do not try to chat up any officer that stops you or is trying to question you. This alone makes them more suspicious.

    4.If an officer asks if they can search anything of yours, simply tell them “No”.

    I was once stopped very early on a Sunday morning on my way to work (4am) for not using a signal in an area where no other headlights (other cars) could be seen from horizon to horizon. I think he was just fishing for late drunks. He asked if I minded if he searched my vehicle. I told him “Yes that I would mind”. He asked me why and I told him that “It would be a waste of my time, his time and my tax dollars”. He replied with something to the effect that he could call to have a dog brought out to sniff a round and then search without my permission if it hit on something. I told him “Go a head and make the call”. I added that he would need to write me a note to my Supervisor explaining why I was late to work and that they found nothing illegal in their search. He said they don’t do that. He went back to his car and then a few minutes later returned to give me a warning ticket for failing you use my signal and sent me on my way. I was polite and appeared bored and unconcerned during the whole time.
     
  13. ilbob

    ilbob Member

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    <sarcasm on>

    Lets give citizens a break. There are a few criminals out there, but most citizens are honest and decent folk. They are not terrorists or criminals. They don't know if the cop pulling them over late at night for some imagined violation of an obscure law is going to violate their rights or not. We've all seen videos of cops tasering, beating, and shooting innocent citizens for no reason whatsoever. Lets face it. Cops have the power cause they got the guns, so any citizen coming into official contact with a cop is screwed.

    <sarcasm off>

     
  14. The Lone Haranguer

    The Lone Haranguer Member

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    Here is the policy I adopted after falling for the fishing expedition disguised as small talk ("In a hurry to get home, are you?" and still getting the ticket anyway. (Note: I have yet to put it to the test. I did get a photo radar ticket :cuss: but that isn't the same thing. Actually, in that case, I would have liked to talk to a real cop, but that's another topic.)

    The only thing you are obligated to do during a traffic stop is produce your documents (driver's license, vehicle registration and - depending on the state - proof of insurance) as required by law. If you are carrying a concealed weapon with a permit and are required to inform, you must also do so. After that, shut up. Now, under the court ruling Terry vs. Ohio, he is allowed to do a cursory search for his safety, including ordering you out of your vehicle, handcuffing you and taking a quick look around the inside for any obvious threats. There isn't much you can do about that, but if he wants to look any further, do not consent. He is also allowed to bring over a K-9 and have the dog sniff around the exterior of your vehicle, so be prepared to spend some time. (I'm not sure what you should do if you find yourself having to "go.";) And do/can dogs pick up on gunshot residue? It could also get a little sticky if I've just come back from the range.;))

    For the record, though, if I get a traffic ticket, and I did it, and I know I did it, I suck it up, pay up and move on. Sometimes you eat the bear and sometimes the bear eats you. ;)
     
  15. Thin Black Line

    Thin Black Line Member

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    It's a good thing then that my coffee beans from Chiapas Mexico are mailed to
    me.....oh, wait, there's that whole "now all my mail can be opened without a
    search warrant" thing....

    If my coffee beans are carried in by illegals who are later granted amnesty,
    will this mean I'm in the clear? Is there a coffee bean import tax? Should I
    expect a raid if such a tax isn't paid?

    This is how ridiculous this country has become: Comrade, your paperwork is
    not in order. Comrade, where is your proof that you have paid the appropriate
    tax? I'm sorry that tax stamp is out of date.....it doesn't matter that it's
    what your local gov't office is still using --it's YOUR responsibility to make
    sure YOU have the most current tax stamp. Comrade, YOU need to answer
    my questions or there will be trouble....
     
  16. justatexasboy

    justatexasboy Member

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    Dont under sell the power of humor.

    I got pulled over by a Texas State trooper. I was clocked going a little over 95 miles an hour. HE walked up briskly and in what looked like a very fowl mood. The first thing he said to me was "I have been waiting for you all day long!"

    I looked at him and said " Im sorry to keep you waiting officer, I tried to get here as fast as I possibly could".

    He couldn't help but laugh when I said that. It was funny watching him trying to compose himself. Finally he gave me a warning. Im sure he got on the radio and told his buddies about it.:D
     
  17. biere

    biere Member

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    I aim for polite and respectful without groveling.

    I have not made it to the money thread but with the way I got treated when I used to bet on horses in ohio and kentucky I just made vague answers that don't tie me down to anything.

    It was a bit too common at one off track kentucky betting place to get pulled over within a block of leaving their parking lot. I never drank and never gave the police a reason to pull me from my car and search me and my car. I never gave them a reason to pull me over either, but that never mattered much in that town.

    Generally I work to keep the topic on why I got pulled over and go from there.

    As far as someone at your door, step outside and close the door to talk to them.

    I have nothing to hide but I also don't make it a habit to show off what I have.
     
  18. Deanimator

    Deanimator Member

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    Of course in certain venues, there's the problem of figuring out how not to be Black, Hispanic, etc.
     
  19. jnojr

    jnojr Member

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    Of course they are. But their job is to find evidence of crime and then to build upon that. When you get pulled over for a minor infraction or a burned-out taillight, it isn't because the officer desperately wants to enforce a $20 citation... it's because he wants to get his eyes and nose (and, if possible, his hands) inside of your car. People don't drive down the road with an "I'M A WANTED FELON!" sign stuck to their car. Cops pull over any "suspect" vehicles in order to see what they can see.

    So, yes, they're doing their job. Be polite and respectful. But do your job as a free citizen of the United States, and remind them that there are (at least supposed to be) serious Constitutional restrictions on their actions. No, you may not have my consent to search my car. No, I am not going to give you inpertinent information. No, I am not going to hang around in a "consensual encounter" while you think of more questions to ask. If you believe a crime has been committed, then you have a warrant or reasonable suspicion/probable cause to do your job. Otherwise, I'm free to do mine... go about my business as an honest, law-abiding citizen with no interference from the State.
     
  20. jeep-2

    jeep-2 Member

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    If i do get pulled over, it will be for speeding or creeping thru a stop sign in the country, so i don't insult their intellegence by asking them what they want, we both know i broke the law, case closed. most of the time he takes my licence,which is a commericial license, my reg and ins. card. talks about the Army as i have veterans plates and hands me back every thing and tells me to take it easy.
    I did get caught speeding a few yrs ago, way over the limit and just got a ticket for no seat belt. again, the veterans plates helped.
    I still know that he is not my friend and would slam me up against the car and cuff me just like cuffing a dope freak if i POed him. I do not sir them but i do not get wise either. I would let them search my auto as they'll never find anything but Zantac in my home or auto.
     
  21. Outlander1

    Outlander1 member

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    You sound like scum to me .
     
  22. Derby FALs

    Derby FALs Member In Memoriam

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    Like we care what a mud puppy thinks. :neener:
     
  23. rritter

    rritter Member

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    I don't get pulled over very often, but I have a standard answer for when the cop asks, "Do you know why I stopped you?" It's "No." I'm not a mind reader, after all.

    Once I was stopped on my way home from work, and I had been speeding slightly. I thought that was why I was being pulled over. It turned out that the officer had noticed that I didn't have a safety inspection sticker on the windshield. Since I had just registered the car, and was within the grace period for getting it inspected, there was no problem. That might not have been the case if I had answered that I thought he was pulling me over for speeding.
     
  24. Spreadfire Arms

    Spreadfire Arms Member

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    for those of you in Texas (there are some similar states out there) keep in mind that an officer can arrest you for ANYTHING except open container and speeding.

    like i previously said, know the rules of engagement. if you decline a consent search, the officer can also choose to arrest you for a Class C Misdemeanor traffic offense and then perform a vehicle inventory when he has your vehicle towed pursuant to the arrest, if one of the offenses is not speeding or open container.

    yes, the officer must go through with the booking process, meaning, have your car towed, and physically transport you to jail, and complete an Affidavit of Probable Cause for a Warrantless Arrest. then you cannot leave the jail until you see the magistrate, which, under law, can be up to a 48 hour wait.

    i would strongly consider what the officer CAN do legally before formulating any pre-formatted response that is likely to piss the officer off. if all i have committed is a simple traffic offense, i'd certainly allow an officer to search my vehicle if i could be sent upon my way in just a few minutes (providing i have nothing to hide) vs. getting put in jail and having my car towed at my expense (and still have nothing to hide).

    some people may think differently, but again, know the rules of engagement prior to opening or closing your mouth. :)
     
  25. Derby FALs

    Derby FALs Member In Memoriam

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    If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude
    greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us
    in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down
    and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon
    you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.

    —Samuel Adams
     
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