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ATF "Firearm Purchase" (?) Number

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Intox, Jan 12, 2018.

  1. Intox

    Intox Member

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    Any time I purchase a firearm through a FFL dealer, without fail my background check takes the full 5 days to clear for sale. Besides some hell raising in my youth with things like speeding tickets and assault charges while working bars (never convicted mind you, just charged...a lot...lol) I have a clean record. No felony charges or convictions.

    In fact, I'm 100% positive it's due to my father with whom I share the same first name who was a multiple felon involved with organized crime. Ironically, he died in federal prison and I half way assumed these delays would stop when that happened, but have not. I am never denied a sale, but again, always have to wait the full 5 days.

    I have been told you can apply top the ATF to get a number to put on my 4473 that basically tells the ATF I am good to go. Are there any reasons I should not apply to get it? I am EXTREMELY leery of the federal government and as a rule of thumb avoid dealing with them like the plague, hence me asking here for better informed opinions.
     
  2. Theohazard

    Theohazard Member

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    It’s called a UPIN and you apply through the FBI. Google “fbi nics upin”.

    I’m not aware of any downside to getting a UPIN other than the effort required to apply and the fact that there’s still a possibility you could get delayed even with a UPIN. I’ve personally seen it happen.

    Considering all the information the government has on me already, if I applied for a UPIN I don’t see how that could make it much worse.
     
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  3. NRA_guy

    NRA_guy Member

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    I am as clean as the driven snow (one speeding ticket about 45 years ago), but every time I bought a gun, the "instant" background check hit a delay on approval.

    Invariably, it was OK'd but if I did not want to wait several hours (such as near the end of a gun show) it was a pain.

    I was told that my SSN or name was probably close to some felon's. I could have filed an inquiry and found out what the delay was, but they advised that I would NEVER get the delay stopped. No way; no how.

    So I got a CCW permit and now there is no background check at all. This is in Mississippi. YMMV.
     
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  4. Theohazard

    Theohazard Member

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    Whoever told you that has absolutely no idea what they’re talking about. Unless that person was an FBI NICS examiner, they had no way of knowing that.

    I’ve seen customers who always get a delay all of a sudden stop getting delayed for no apparent reason. I’ve seen customers who never get delayed started getting delayed for no apparent reason. Or sometimes someone who never gets delayed all of a sudden gets delayed just once for no apparent reason, or sometimes the opposite happens.

    Yes, people who get delayed every time will usually keep getting delayed every time. And people who have never been delayed will most likely not get delayed for future purchases. But it’s not 100% predictable by any means, not unless you work at the FBI and you have personal insight into the NICS system.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
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  5. Intox

    Intox Member

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    Thanks!

    You're a rock star
     
  6. Intox

    Intox Member

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    LOL

    I grew up in Mississippi. I had a similar issue once when I was younger when Miss used to use people's SSN for their DL number and then switched. Went through a road block once, and the Highway Patrolman came to my window laughing and complimented me on my "exceptional skills at disguising myself".

    Seems when they switched away from using SSN someone had been issued a DL whose number was my SSN digit for digit. And since the switch happened while my license was not due for renewal, we both had a Miss DL with the same number. But apparently, while I was a white male in my early 20s, there was a black male in his late 30s wanted for hit and run.

    Back to topic though, my brother told me that Miss had gone to some kind of different levels for their CCW, something like "enhanced" carry or something. Is that hat you did to expedite your checks? I live in Alabama, and while we don't have levels of CCW...our perk is time. My CCW is good for 5 years.
     
  7. Spats McGee

    Spats McGee Moderator

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    As Theohazard noted, getting a UPIN might smooth some of this out.
     
  8. Theohazard

    Theohazard Member

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    Yeah, I should make it clear that it’s rare to still get delayed when you have a UPIN. I’ve only ever seen that happen with two customers. All the rest who had UPINs got a “proceed” within no more than a few minutes.

    If you often or always get delayed and it really irks you, getting a UPIN is the way to go. Most likely it will fix the problem.

    That said, the vast majority of customers I’ve had who get delayed on a regular basis don’t bother with a UPIN. They just resign themselves to the fact that every purchase requires a return visit a few days later.
     
  9. hdwhit
    • Contributing Member

    hdwhit Member

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    Well, after the OPM hack, the Chinese intelligence services know more about me than the ATF or FBI, so they'd be welcome to whatever they wanted if it sped up the process.
     
  10. RETG

    RETG Member

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    Yea, but you got OPM supplied MYIDCARE protection.:D At least I did.
     
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  11. BSA1

    BSA1 Member

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    In Kansas as well. Makes it very quick and easy.
     
  12. bikemutt
    • Contributing Member

    bikemutt Member

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    Unless you know the reason why you get delayed every time, getting a UPIN may be a waste of time. A UPIN is simply a unique identifier for a Voluntary Appeal File or VAF as it's called. A VAF is most useful if you get denied, then appeal, and prevail. It shortens the cycle from months (or years these days) to almost instantly.

    In any event, if you do get a UPIN and furnish it with the 4473, the transfer will need to be reviewed by a NICS examiner. If the examiner queue is full when your check comes up, either someone, or some algorithm, will determine that an examiner is unlikely to review your transfer within a reasonable period of time, the transfer will then be delayed. This is not an uncommon outcome for a UPIN transfer, I say this because I have one. Whatever algorithm is used seems to know how long of drive it is to go back and re-certify after the transfer is proceeded, just kidding.

    My only other recommendation is before you fill out a VAF and apply for a UPIN, first request a copy of your FBI criminal record, if indeed there is one. It's inexpensive, just need a set of 'prints, and you're entitled to it. It won't take very long to receive a response and then you'll know what the FBI knows. If there is a record, it may contain incorrect information which you can have corrected, that in itself could make the consistent delay go away. The forms to request a copy of a record are available online.

    Good luck.
     
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  13. Intox

    Intox Member

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    Thanks for the information.

    Best I can figure it's due to some kind of red flag being tagged to my 4473 due to my father and I having the same name (well, different middle names) and him being a multiple felon. As I said, it always comes back approved....just takes 5 days like clock work. But perhaps I should just resign myself to knowing that is a fact of life for me when it comes to purchasing a firearm as I have low frustration tolerance level when dealing with government agencies and from what you're saying I might end up describing someone's family ancestry via colorful commentary and make things worse.
     
  14. bikemutt
    • Contributing Member

    bikemutt Member

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    Bingo! right answer. If you always get the gun, go with the flow.

    I know this seems counter-intuitive, we all have rights etc. I've been down this road before, I decided I'm not going to buy my lawyer a new yacht just so I never get delayed, and it can still happen anyway.

    I always get the gun, sometimes in minutes, sometimes in hours, sometimes in a couple days, I go with the flow.
     
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  15. PapaG

    PapaG Member

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    Former FFL holder, plus a FOID, and concealed carry licensee, gun store employee, ISRA, and a Benefactor NRA Life member, NRA certified instructor, and with no arrests, no association with fringe groups (other than a fundamental non-denominational church) I am always delayed and have grown to expect it though it still makes me a little nervous. BTW, the store owner also gets delayed even though he can order from suppliers and get dozens of guns shipped to the store with a phone call.
    Life in Illinois.
     
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  16. CLP

    CLP Member

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    Forget the UPIN. If you can pass the 4473, then you can get a CCW in Bama. The CCW in Bama, like in Miss, can substitute for the background check. Just picked up a Single-Seven last week and an LRB M14 a month ago, both by using my CCW.
     
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  17. Intox

    Intox Member

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    My local FFL dealer told me this as well. Apparently my CCW needs to have both issue and expiration to function like that and mine only has the expiration date. I got it in 2013 (My wife and I did the 5 year CCW) so maybe they changed that after I had gotten it. If so, I have to renew this year any way so.....yay!
     
  18. Intox

    Intox Member

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    As an aside, you might be surprised to know what is considered a "fringe group". I know it shocked me. I'm an Army vet and was floored to know that means possible domestic terrorist. I'm liberty minded, meaning I openly endorse Constitutional government and support (donate / vote) like minded politicians like Justin Amash, Mike Lee, Rand Paul, ect. Supporting these types of candidates is, again, considered signs of a possible domestic terrorist. We live on the Gulf Coast which means hurricane preparedness, so we have things like food, fuel, and generators stored. That makes us possible terrorists.
     
  19. coswabbit

    coswabbit Member

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    your kind attention is drawn to item #21 “date issued (if any)” on the ATF 4473 form:
    https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/4...n-record-over-counter-atf-form-53009/download

    that stated, please note, per ATF, AL nor MI are not Brady exemption states so you having a concealed permit has absolutely nothing to do transferring a firearm to you from the dealer.

    https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/permanent-brady-state-lists

    added: yes the designation is quite interesting on what qualifies to be labeled that way
     

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