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ATF Rule 2021R8 goes into effect January 31, 2023

Discussion in 'Legal' started by kje54, Nov 22, 2022.

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  1. lsudave

    lsudave Member

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    It would be nice to have some other relevant links attached or pinned, so we can review stuff.

    For example, I have seen a lot of internet wailing about 'registering for a SBR is a trap'; but then I just watched Fuddbusters post a video saying the ATF (the goverment) is not allowed to entrap that way... ie they are not allowed to use that submission against you. I know it's all up in the air, but it would be good to at least have several reasoned pieces in the same place, so we can make an informed judgement ourselves.
     
  2. rust collector

    rust collector Moderator Staff Member

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    At some point we may try to consolidate some threads, but Legal is where law and rule cites and links belong. Videos and personal theories/wishes/rants will need to be in general or perhaps in NFA section.
     
  3. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    I've seen several different firearms attorneys discussing this issue and based on their commentary it's not possible that all of them understand all the relevant points.

    Hopefully the lawsuits being filed (or relevant legislation passing) will eliminate the problem before the end of the 120 day period, but if not I'm thinking people who own a braced pistol should just change out the barrel for a 16" one and wait things out.
     
    DoubleMag and Armybrat like this.
  4. DoubleMag

    DoubleMag Member

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    Fresh with no edits and names the BATFE Sources as, rule is effective end of this month. And other etc. such as the 922r (assemble from parts), etc.


     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2023
  5. 12Bravo20

    12Bravo20 Member

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    And in that video the Jan 31st date is still not set in stone.
     
  6. Lennyjoe

    Lennyjoe Member

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  7. TomVA

    TomVA Member

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    My Congressman Morgan Griffith of Virginia has introduced a bill, H.R. 173 - "Home Defense and Competitive Shooting Act of 2023", to counter this ATF Rule 2021R-08F.

    https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/173/text?r=31&s=1

    Here is his letter to me:


    January 27, 2023

    Dear Mr. XXXXXX,

    Thank you for contacting me regarding short-barreled rifles. I appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts.

    On January 13, 2023, the Department of Justice’s (DOJ) Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF) finalized a rule, (Docket No. ATF 2021R-08F), to expand the definition of “short-barreled rifles” to include any and every pistol that has an arm brace affixed to it. I immediately signed onto a Congressional resolution to revoke this rule.

    Under current law, the ATF enforces all National Firearms Act of 1934 (NFA) regulations concerning non-military commerce in machine guns, short-barreled rifles, classes of “concealable” firearms” considered to be “any other weapon,” destructive devices, and suppressors. The arbitrary 16-inch barrel definition unfairly penalizes competitive shooters and pistol enthusiasts generally.

    The barrel length definition used by the ATF has led to confusion among law-abiding gunowners as to whether certain types of pistols fall into the short-barrel rifle category.

    Under the new standard, the ATF will decide on a case-by-case basis whether a firearm is subject to the NFA. American short-barrel rifle owners may end up facing a felony charge just because of the whims of an unelected bureaucrat.

    I have introduced H.R.173, the Home Defense and Competitive Shooting Act of 2023. This bill will remove all short-barreled rifle registration and licensing restrictions under the National Firearms Act (NFA) of 1934. It would essentially allow anyone who passes a basic firearms background check to purchase a short-barreled rifle or use a pistol with a brace. It also eliminates a $200 transfer tax on short-barreled rifles and preempts any local or state laws that tax or regulate these types of firearms.

    For more information on what is happening in Congress, please visit my website at www.morgangriffith.house.gov. If I may be of further assistance to you on this, or any other issue, please feel free to contact me in my Washington, DC office at (202) 225-3861. I remain



    Sincerely yours,
    mgriffith_signature.png
    H. MORGAN GRIFFITH
    Member of Congress
     
  8. lsudave

    lsudave Member

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    I get the desire to not clutter things up too much.

    I think it's the conflicting "legal" angles that lead to so much confusion;
    the Fuddbuster's video cites some law or ruling, and they list which it was, stating that one could not be charged merely by providing the information required to file for a SBR. It was along the grounds of self-incrimination. I also believe they stated that regarding the infamous 88 day denial, that the ATF is required to purge that application as though it never existed. IF that's true (and that's something I want to find out), then in a legal sense, you'd NOT be self-incriminating, because the ATF then can not use that application to say you possess such an item.
    That seems to be at the heart of the "don't register, it's a trap to find and track down your pistols and take them" fear.
     
  9. rust collector

    rust collector Moderator Staff Member

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    From this thread we have learned that we thought we knew when the rule would take effect. We were wrong. We were given educated guesses about when the rule would take effect. That didn't happen. An FAQ was published that changed a long-standing position of ATF regarding possession of NFA firearms. That was promptly removed and Mr Longnecker stated it was a mistake. Now we see reports that the publication date will be January 31, which causes us to wonder why that date was not disclosed weeks ago and to speculate that it too is subject to change.

    Let's put this well-intentioned but confusing thread to bed and start a new deadline thread when the new rule is published in CFR.
     
    dogtown tom likes this.
  10. rust collector

    rust collector Moderator Staff Member

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  11. kje54

    kje54 Member

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    I've already seen an article where the ATF is downplaying it's impact, they're claiming that at least 60% will apply for SBRs and most of the rest will hand their guns in or modify them to comply. Yeah and we all believe in fairies and unicorns also..........
     
    Jamie B likes this.
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