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atf ruling announced at shot shot coming on monday?

Discussion in 'SHOT Show Coverage' started by Jon Coppenbarger, Jan 23, 2011.

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  1. Jon Coppenbarger

    Jon Coppenbarger Member

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    Did not see this posted yet by the moderators or did I miss it and if I am just repeating something posted earlier please delete.
    On the 19th at the shot show the atf stated that they would be coming out with a new ruling on shotguns and what would be allowed under the use of a sporting shotgun and not a destructive device.

    We all remember the ruling on the last ones which had large detactible mags for shotguns. (usas 12)
    so the 24th which is just a few short hours aways we should learn whats up?

    So could the lastest trend in shotguns like the saiga or new kel-tec be or?

    posted it here as it was announced at shot!
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2011
  2. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

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    I'm guessing the Saiga will be toast from this. Kel Tec plans to produce their shotgun domestically I believe so it won't touch that.
     
  3. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    Oh the [strike]irony[/strike] AGONY if they were to announce that the new Rampaging Judge is "sporting" but a Saiga 12 isn't.

    I don't own either, but there's just something wrong with the world ...
     
  4. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Member

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    Sam:

    There is Never, Ever any positive relationship between logic and the BATF&E when it comes to a firearms ruling. :banghead:
     
  5. W L Johnson

    W L Johnson Member

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    Lovely, just Lovely
    A saiga shotgun has been on my Christmas list, but even if the ATF doesn't do a thing just the rumor of them doing something will drive the prices through the roof. If you can find one now that is! :banghead:
     
  6. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    Exactly my thoughts as well.

    And, part of why I hate to even see rumors of actions posted. We have no information yet, but the speculation is affecting even those of us who weren't in the market for any of these at this point.

    Maybe we should all start speculating that the ATF is going to announce that they're giving up enforcing any Destructive Device classifications on firearms that can fire shotshells. Wonder if we could drive prices down?
     
  7. Derek Zeanah

    Derek Zeanah System Administrator Staff Member

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    I know nothing official, but the scuttlebutt was that Saiga was going to be in trouble because of this.
     
  8. RX-178

    RX-178 Member

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    Likewise nothing official here, but the fact that ATI was JUST given an import A-OK on the Akdal Arms 1919 shotgun from the ATF not a more than few days before the SHOT show makes this confusing.

    A source from WITHIN the ATF, but nobody of any official standing said that he thinks it's because of Norinco's trench gun that includes a functional bayonet lug, which is apparently an import no-no.
     
  9. jerkface11

    jerkface11 Member

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    Well the ruling could be a good thing.
     
  10. W L Johnson

    W L Johnson Member

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    Can you explain why you think that could be a good thing.
     
  11. jerkface11

    jerkface11 Member

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    They may decide that MORE guns are sporting. That would be a good thing.
     
  12. W L Johnson

    W L Johnson Member

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    So you're saying they could go in the opposite direction of what the rumor is, I can't see the ATF doing that. But who knows? We'll just have to wait for the announcement to find out for sure, until then it's just rumors.
     
  13. RX-178

    RX-178 Member

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    Another thing is, I think that no matter what the ruling itself is, this is all because the ATF recently waffled on their stance on shotguns in general, specifically with a letter stating that a pistol gripped shotgun with a barrel under 18" is not necessarily an AOW.

    They're now near desperate to clarify their stance on shotguns again.
     
  14. Jon Coppenbarger

    Jon Coppenbarger Member

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    RX-178 I could not agree with you more
     
  15. Geneseo1911

    Geneseo1911 Member

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    Lots of rumors flying around the interwebz. I'm hopeful it could be something other than the Saiga. The importers have gone to great lengths to keep it within the sporting purpose exemption. The Russky 8 rd. mags are unobtanium in this country for that reason.

    That said, the BATFE is not known for being fair, consistent, intelligent, or reasonable.
     
  16. General Geoff

    General Geoff Member

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    Doesn't matter whether it's produced domestically or not, anything with a bore over 0.50" in diameter that the ATF doesn't consider sporting is a DD.
     
  17. Big_E

    Big_E Member

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    Looks like buying a Saiga 12 may go on the top of my list.

    If they are going to single out that particular shotgun, which I hope not, do you think they would make owners who had them before this "ruling" have to register them? A la, California "Assault Weapons" Ban where they turned pretty much all AR-15 owners who didn't register into criminals?
     
  18. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

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    But their press release specifically mentions imports. If they are telling the truth the Kel Tec seems safe since it's domestic. Oh wait, I said "ATF" and "telling the truth" in the same sentence.... my bad.


     
  19. pikid89

    pikid89 Member

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    maybe it is going the other way in terms of allowing more as jerkface said
    (for example the taurus raging judge)
     
  20. Prince Yamato

    Prince Yamato Member

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    Could it be one of those "readily accepts military parts" issues, whereby IZH will have to angle cut the back of their receivers alla the VEPR and Mak-90 to comply?

    I don't own a Saiga, but I hope that their shotguns are not prohibited because of this!
     
  21. FIVETWOSEVEN

    FIVETWOSEVEN Member

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    Considering how the Raging Judge is coming out, They may actually be lessening its restrictions. Then again isn't the head of the ATF anti gun?
     
  22. Gaiudo

    Gaiudo Member

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    And why isn't Saiga or a Saiga-clone made domestically? These seem to be a well-liked product.
     
  23. Geneseo1911

    Geneseo1911 Member

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    I don't think Obama's pick for that position has been confirmed; at least when you go to the ATF website, they still have reference to "Acting Director" so-and-so, who is not the anti-gunner from Chicago.

    I also wonder if the reference to "certain imported shotguns" might have been a reference to the Taurus's. Taurus has gotten very aggressive lately with the shotgun shell firing pistols. The ATF apparently dropped the NFA hammer on a couple of their new models on Friday, so I wouldn't be surprised the letter would be to clarify that.

    The good news (well it's the less bad part of bad news) is that the guy who originally broke this story here:http://blog.princelaw.com/ claims that he asked whether this would be a Destructive Device ruling, and he was told is was not. Here in IL our benevolent leaders protect us by not allowing evil DD's, so the guys who had the AA-12's back in the day had to dispose of them out of state when they were re-classified.

    ETA:
    Mainly because it would cost about twice as much if it were made here. Look at the price differential between the imported vs domestically manufactured x39 AK's. $350 vs $1000+ That may be what happens if importation is stopped, because they guns are gaining quite a following, especially in competition. You know....Sporting Purposes

    The prices some of the high-end conversions are selling for would suggest that even a $1000 domestically made gun would be at least somewhat feasible. My attraction to the thing, however is to be able to buy it relatively cheap and then modify it myself. Not sure if I'd be so willing to take a dremel to it if it cost a grand or so.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2011
  24. Gaiudo

    Gaiudo Member

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    There's another thread on modded Saigas with JP parts. I wonder if that would be an argument for Sporting Purposes; or do such ruling only apply as they arrive in the US as-is?
     
  25. Derek Zeanah

    Derek Zeanah System Administrator Staff Member

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    Maybe. I talked with the head of marketing for Taurus and she told me that the manufacturing capacity in Miami had been increased 50% last year. Taurus is trying to move more production from Brasil to the USA, so maybe we'll see more of that.
     
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