ATTENTION GLOCK FANS M&P making us look bad

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Do you really want to go into a Google quote link war over the hs2000? What would that proove? Were you even in the shooting community when this gun first hit the scene? I was and it was not especially well received. If it was you'd see used hs2000's all over the place.

Yes please, show me your sources and then I'll believe you. Did you have any first hand experience with the pistol failing or was it the friend of a friend? Every original HS2000 owner I've met is happy with their "crappy" pistol. People saw it as an inferior pistol because it was priced around $300 and those pistols are seen as inferior. Why do you think that Ruger autoloaders carry the stigma they do?

Lighten up not every statement can be nor needs to be verified with Google. It doesn't lessen your manliness because some anonymous dude on the interweb doesn't like your gun. YOU'LL BE OK

If you're gonna make a pretty large statement without backing it up, then it isn't credible. My manliness is intact, I'm just defending my pistol like you are defending yours. I don't even know why you'd bring that in. My XD isn't my life, nor my manhood, please keep those comments to yourself.
 
LOL how did I know you wouldn't let it ride.

Sorry FIVE but I've seen how you roll and I'm not gonna play ball and I know its going to infuriate the heck out of you letting a meaningless point go.

BTW your comment about price makes the point I was making much more eloquently. $200 + the S.A. crest completely changes perception of an already existing product. Notice how in my quote I said "reguaded as a" not IS. You basically just said the same thing.



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Sorry FIVE but I've seen how you roll and I'm not gonna play ball and I know its going to infuriate the heck out of you letting a meaningless point go.

:rolleyes: I just ask you to back up your claims, nothing more.
 
:rolleyes: I just ask you to back up your claims, nothing more.
WHY? You agree with me

at how the hs2000 was widely regarded as a flaming piece of poo until S.A. comes along and starts marketing the thing and VIOLA the best handgun ever.

People saw it as an inferior pistol because it was priced around $300 and those pistols are seen as inferior.

these two quotes say the EXACT same thing. I just say it more colorfully
 
R.W.Dale said:
BTW your comment about price makes the point I was making much more eloquently. $200 + the S.A. crest completely changes perception of an already existing product.

Pricing and product acceptance is an interesting topic. Beretta transferred the tooling for its Cougar line to its Stoeger subsidiary and dropped the price a couple of hundred dollars. While the Beretta-branded Cougar was considered a top-of-the-line product, the rebadged Stoeger Cougar was greeted with skepticism and suspicion.
 
these two quotes say the EXACT same thing. I just say it more colorfully

Widely regarded means that a large amount of people saw them as that. Most gun people never heard of them. It was mostly seen as a unknown pistol that no one was interested in, not that it was no good. I can think of quite a few pistols that are like the HS2000, low cost and unknown quality and no one buys them but I don't see people spouting hate about them or better yet, even talking about them.
 
Pricing and product acceptance is an interesting topic. Beretta transferred the tooling for its Cougar line to its Stoeger subsidiary and dropped the price a couple of hundred dollars. While the Beretta-branded Cougar was considered a top-of-the-line product, the rebadged Stoeger Cougar was greeted with skepticism and suspicion.

Gaston Glock wanted to introduce the GLOCK at a much cheaper price but was dissuaded by his marketing guy for this reason.

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This rant against the HS2000/XD is derailing the thread, and TBH, really is unnecessary. I have never fired one, I don't exactly care for the loaded chamber indicator, but I have never heard anything bad about them. Whether they originally were liked or disliked doesn't matter, they are still a reliable and accurate gun, as are most modern handguns.
 
As an owner of 5 M&P's, I have nothing against Glocks and actually think they're fine pistols. All in all they're quite similar so it would be difficult to like one but hate the other, unless you think the M&P is just a rip off or copycat (but alas, the glock wasn't the first polymer, striker fired pistol either). I'm an American so I prefer to buy American made weapons from a US based company when given the choice, that's all.

The Xd on the other hand, :barf:
 
I think this debate over M&P vs. Glock or XD vs. M&P or Glock vs. XD or Polymer vs. Steel or AK vs. AR is greatly over done.

Get what you like.
Be happy with what you get.
 
R.W.Dale said:
The s&w m&p is an impressive pistol. But the fact remains that it doesn't do a darn thing even the oldest gen1 glock doesn't do. 30years to improve on the original glock design and what do we have from glock and its competition today as an improvement? The interchangeable backstrap. THATS IT!

so for me the glock is still on top. They set the bar and in 30 years it has yet to be raised.
This is coming from a Glock fan who shot matches with two Glock 22s and 250,000+ rounds of reloads. I have shot and owned both in 9mm, 40S&W and 45ACP.

I still like Glocks and carry a G27 and depend my life on it.

HOWEVER, there are few things M&P does better than a Glock:

- My father is left-handed and I have several friends/co-workers who are left handed. I guess Glock "perfection" don't include south-paw people. :cuss::fire: M&P pistols (all models) have full ambidextrous controls to include ambi slide lock. Left handed shooters must learn to use their shooting hand's index finger to operate the slide lock on Glocks. :uhoh: Most left-handed shooters I have range tested with will often gravitate towards ambi-friendly pistols for purchase.

- As to the rest of "ergonomics", the M&P grips gives you the "Oooooooohhhhhh, NICE GRIP" feeling when you pick up the pistol and I can reach all the key controls (mag release/slide lock) readily with my thumb without having to shift my grip. With Glocks, I must shift my grip to fully operate the mag release. Over the years, I have "adapted" to sharper Glock grip angle, but whenever I pick up M&P pistols (even PT145) and point at the light switch, the sights are always right on.

- During early years of match shooting with G22s, I found my "drop-free" magazines didn't always wanted to drop free, especially when the pistol was tilted so I could reach the mag release with my shooting thumb (My match 1911/P226 always dropped the metal magazines ;)). I have since adapted and now use a "wrist flick" during mag change to ensure empty magazines are flung free from the mag well. With M&P metal magazines, they always drop free even when the pistol is tilted at an angle. As to M&P magazine base, unliike Glock's magazine base, is wider than the mag well and act as limiter for magazine insertion. No matter how hard you slam on the magazine base, the magazine cannot go past the magazine base. My Glock magazines are mangled at magazine release point.

- My wife likes/wants/needs to comfortably shoot every pistol we have. She can comfortably grip the M&P45 with the small grip insert but Gen3 45 Glock grips (No Gen4 Glocks for CA!), even with SF models, is "no go" for my wife. It is one of several reasons why G30 got replaced with PT145. Yes, she loves shooting M&P45 and PT145.

- I am finding myself shooting a lot more lead reloads in 9mm, 40S&W and 45ACP. I use 40S&W and 40-9 conversion barrels in G22/G27 to shoot lead reloads because the hexagonal/polygonal hill/valley rifling with loooooong leade aggravates gas cutting/leading issues. The aftermarket barrels with traditional square-cut land/groove rifling and shorter leade are much more lead reload friendly and accuracy is better.

Lead reloads and M&P pistols? No problem! BTW, I can still get 40-9 conversion barrels for M&P40 ;):D.

- Comparing factory recoil springs, M&P40 and M&P45 seems to offer softer felt recoil for me and everyone who has shot them side-by-side.

- This may not apply to everyone. Although I buy firearms based on quality of construction and accuracy (my last purchase was a railed Sig 1911), I am happy with the fact that M&P pistols are made in USA. With the correction of triggers, S&W finally has a product line that can rival any pistol line whether for law enforcement/military use or competitive match shooting. I for one would love to see M&P replace the Beretta M9. Hooah!
 
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Glocks have been around for 30 years. No one needs to see a pic of your Glock, unless there's naked women in it.
 
In my opinion glock is a great gun..severely over priced ..the are durable ...but y spend hundreds more on a ugly ass gun with a crappy trigger...I guarantee u if Taurus made the pistol of choice for the military but glock was the better gun everyone would own a Taurus...its really that simple..9 out of 10 ppl buy a glock cuz the military uses it..well unless u abuse the absolute hell out of your gun then why spend the extra 200 bucks ...not trying to bash glock its a fantastic weapon..if ur a service man..but I will not own a glock unless I find one cheap I can turn around and sell to a sry sucker willing to pay 500 bucks for it just cuz the military uses it..for the kind of money they ask u should get alot more than just a chunk of steel..which is literally what they look like...I must say they are smart building basically the same gun and over and over but yet current glock owners will drop 600 on the same gun the already have because its a Gen 4. News flash its the same gun remade
 
Tex4426 said:
In my opinion glock is a great gun..severely over priced ..the are durable ...but y spend hundreds more on a ugly ass gun with a crappy trigger...I guarantee u if Taurus made the pistol of choice for the military but glock was the better gun everyone would own a Taurus...its really that simple..9 out of 10 ppl buy a glock cuz the military uses it..well unless u abuse the absolute hell out of your gun then why spend the extra 200 bucks ...not trying to bash glock its a fantastic weapon..if ur a service man..but I will not own a glock unless I find one cheap I can turn around and sell to a sry sucker willing to pay 500 bucks for it just cuz the military uses it..for the kind of money they ask u should get alot more than just a chunk of steel..which is literally what they look like...I must say they are smart building basically the same gun and over and over but yet current glock owners will drop 600 on the same gun the already have because its a Gen 4. News flash its the same gun remade

Hahaha... you're joking, right? I don't think there's a solid point in that whole post. Maybe the ugly part.
 
WAIT WAIT WAIT...
To say M&P doesn't support the LE community is 100% false. I am a glock fan, but M&P is practically giving away the M&P 15's when a deparmtment orders over a certain number of pistols.....I know this for a FACT. M&P is a great gun, both guns fte.....i'm sure both have blown up. The point is some people like glocks. Some people like M&P's personally i prefer a glock, but like the M&P's
 
I like my Glocks (never "love" anything that can't [actively] love you you back) and I have eight (17, 19, 20, 22, 23, 26, 27 & 30) but I have ten Rugers so I guess I like Ruger more. I do have two Smiths: 4006 and 1006 so I really don't like them. I have only one Browning, a Hi-Power, so I really hate it.

I just got to stop buying inferior stuff I don't like.
 
"I think this debate over M&P vs. Glock or XD vs. M&P or Glock vs. XD or Polymer vs. Steel or AK vs. AR is greatly over done.

Get what you like.
Be happy with what you get."


True words right there. Get what you like. There are enough people who hate gun owners in general. No need to be anything but civil towards each other.
 
"I think this debate over M&P vs. Glock or XD vs. M&P or Glock vs. XD or Polymer vs. Steel or AK vs. AR is greatly over done.

Get what you like.
Be happy with what you get."


True words right there. Get what you like. There are enough people who hate gun owners in general. No need to be anything but civil towards each other.
And with that, this should be locked. This debate will never go anywhere
 
There seems to be a trend of people calling for threads they don't like to get locked. Just don't click it.
 
They're a horse a piece: both have good/bad stuff to em. Where is this 8 pages of M&P glory hole braggin?

I have a mid-sized M&P .45 right now which outshoots the M&P 9Pro I just sold. No kidding.

Both need trigger/sear/spring work to be right with my hand.

IMHO, SIG puts em BOTH to shame.
 

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You hear "love my 1911 grip angle, but hate Glocks" Guess what? they are virtually identical!:D

Not when you add that infernal hump on the Glock. Makes it point very differently from a 1911. The cottage industry that has popped up to remove that hump proves it's a major concern for a great many people.
 
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