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Attention Soldering Experts w/ .22LR, Or, How Can We Make a Rimfire Snap Cap?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Hans Esker, Oct 28, 2008.

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  1. Hans Esker

    Hans Esker Member

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    As we know, there are no durable .22LR snap caps on the market. The closest thing I have found was some empty, unprimed cases with bullets seated; I was rather disappointed in them. As I see it, when using empty cases, deformation of the rim area quickly becomes a problem. Ideally we could turn a dummy round from a solid, resilient material (other than aluminum, which has been tried and found lacking), but not many of us have ready access to a lathe, as compared to a torch of some sort. Not to mention the best to material to turn the dummies from has yet to be determined.

    So here is my concept: In order to reduce the deformation, the case, and especially the rim area, needs to be filled with something. I believe that solder might fill the bill; surely it would be better than air! Here is where you soldering experts come in. I don't have enough soldering expertise to try this and do it right.

    I have not ruled out the use of other substances, and am open to suggestions as to other materials we could fill the case rims with.

    For those who state "why do you need to dry fire?", "why dry fire?", why shouldn't you dry fire a .22lr firearm?", "why not use empty cases?", et cetera, please do not bother posting, as it does not add anything to the topic at hand. If you have to ask, you probably don't understand, and should go do some more reading.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2008
  2. CRITGIT

    CRITGIT member

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    Here save yourself some grief!

    [​IMG]
    Safe and effective when used as directed!:)
    Did I mention cheap?

    CRITGIT
     
  3. Hostile Amish

    Hostile Amish member

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    My friend gave me some steel .22LR snap caps.

    I'll ask him where he got them. They work perfectly, and never distort.
     
  4. Dookie

    Dookie Member

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    so in the time it took you to make them, you could have worked an bought enough to last a few years.
     
  5. Justin

    Justin Moderator Staff Member

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    Agree with CritGit. Those things work very well. The only downside is they don't cycle. But I found that by trimming off the edge where the extractor would usually grab on to the "rim" would solve that problem. That way you can pull the slide back without extracting the anchor from the chamber. Just use it until the edge gets beat up, toss the old one, trim a new one and you're good to go.
     
  6. Hans Esker

    Hans Esker Member

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    Critgit, Will these feed from a magazine? I doubt it.
    Dookie, apparently you don't enjoy saving money, buying durable items, or making things.
    Apparently neither of you can read very well.

    The goal here is to have a discussion on how we can make a .22LR snap cap/dummy without those drawbacks.

    Once again, I ask that we stay on topic.
     
  7. quatin

    quatin Member

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    Do you just want to fill the case with solder? Just buy some lead free solder from Radioshack, put a piece inside the .22 shell and then put the shell upright on a stove. I think 400 degrees should get most solder to melt.
     
  8. john917v

    john917v Member

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    Good idea from Quatin! Or, you could use lead. It'd need more heat, though. I'm gonna have to make some, with a torch, though.
     
  9. quatin

    quatin Member

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    I think lead based solder melts at a lower temperature. However, if you want to do this in your kitchen, it's just a couple bucks more for lead free or low lead solder and temperature is not an issue since you're using a stove.
     
  10. tank mechanic

    tank mechanic Member

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    A problem with the solder is that it will probably deform along with the rim. You might try something like filling the case with a glue stick from a hot glue gun. The glue would resist deforming and you would might get the rim to last longer.
     
  11. Carlos Cabeza

    Carlos Cabeza Member

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    Odd idea :confused:...........but curiously interesting.......;)

    Soldering is easy, 735 deg. approx. maybe use a little wetting agent (flux).

    Dump the powder, (neutralize the ignition source) Hot water ? Put some flux inside the case and heat with propane, oxy-acet torch if ya got it. Melt some filler metal inside.

    Insert bullet back into case.

    Silver solder might last longer as it is a bit harder than tin or lead.

    Main question here is, Why does it have to cycle like a live round ??????

    The whole snap cap concept is "trigger control".......

    Materials......DELRIN ? , POLYPROPYENE ?
     
  12. benEzra

    benEzra Moderator Emeritus

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    If you do this, just be sure to wear eye protection. Liquids in vertical tubes heated from the bottom can sometimes spurt out if conditions are right. I doubt this would be an issue with solder at stove temps (unless you accidentally leave some priming compound in the rim, and it goes off), but goggles are cheap compared to eye surgery.

    Be darn sure that the priming is set off/burned away before adding any solder. A primer going off with molten solder in the case would be a nasty little cannon.
     
  13. HB

    HB Member

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    That is the way to get help right there folks :banghead:

    You could try the solder but most likely it will just deform like everything else... And I wouldn't use steel as you could break the firing pin. I would look into making the case head out of silicone or something resilient

    HB
     
  14. ants

    ants Member

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    As HB notes, watch out for damage to the firing pin.
     
  15. Carlos Cabeza

    Carlos Cabeza Member

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    Ben E

    Gotta give credit for being an amateur inventor huh !:what:

    If he doesn't take basic precautions, he shouldn't be messing around with dangerous things.

    That's like the warning label on the hair dryer !
    ("Do not use in the shower !"):eek:

    P.S. Knifeknut, Don't do anything I suggested !:neener:
     
  16. Larry Ashcraft

    Larry Ashcraft Moderator Staff Member

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    I hate to ruin everybody's fun playing with fire and all that dangerous stuff, but what about JB Weld?

    ;)
     
  17. Hans Esker

    Hans Esker Member

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    Alright, it took until post #7 :banghead: but now this thread is going the way I originally intended and asked for. Thanks Guys :), keep the ideas coming.
    I will try to be more civil in the future.
     
  18. deadin

    deadin Member

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    May I be so rude to ask what are you "snap capping" in? If its a revolver or bolt action rifle, continue on. However there sometimes are other solutions for semi-autos.
     
  19. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    Steel rims too I presume?

    I don't know what they are, but they are not snap-caps.

    If they are solid steel, they are doing nothing to protect the firing pin from damage, and may in fact be causing it.
     
  20. Kentucky Kernel

    Kentucky Kernel Member

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    How about filling with 30 minute epoxy?
     
  21. Beatnik

    Beatnik Member

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    I'd cast them, but that's because I already have casting equipment - not for bullets, for sand casting.

    small quantity petrobond
    large steel spoon
    propane torch
    old pewter mug from salvation army (not aluminum) or plumbing solder
    mold made of two pieces of 4-5" PVC pipe
    baby powder

    With that setup you could cast 6 pewter copies of 22LR at a time, with the bullet integral to it, and they'd cycle, and they wouldn't be made of steel (which can't be good for your firing pin) but soft pewter. They'd also be silver colored instead of brass.

    lindsaybks.com has lots of interesting DIY books on stuff like this.
     
  22. m00t

    m00t Member

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    It seems like the ultimate goal here would be to create a rim with the strength to stop the impact of the firing pin, without shearing or deforming in the process, and with the rigidity to be removed by the extractor afterward. The main problem with using the brass casing of a rimfire round is that in order for it to cushion the firing pin, it needs to bend in the process, and that bend will always overcome the spring capacity of the brass.... filling the rim with an elastic material won't deform it back in the same way, and even if it did the metal would fatigue rapidly and degrade.

    Impacting an elastic material directly, on the other hand, solves the issue of the rim degrading quickly from impact, but creates a new problem in that those materials are not rigid enough to be grabbed by the extractor for removal. I think that both problems can be solved 2 ways:

    -Approach the issue of cushioning the firing pin the same way centerfire snap caps do, by using a metal plate connected to a spring. The spring would need to be inside the casing, and attached to a rod, holding a plate for the pin to impact. The difficulty here is going to be machining parts, and also getting the plate to move laterally since there will be a torque produced by the pin hitting the rim. Or, I suppose, you could design the plate with a pivot (like a ball-socket joint) attached to the rod so it's designed to cushion torque.

    Much more readily implemented would be designing a rubber (or otherwise elastic) plate, with a brass backing for the extractor to grab. You could probably grind off the bottom of a .22 case and attach a rubber disc (maybe cut from a bike inner tube?) or mold one out of something elastic like the rubber handle material they make to dip tools in....
     
  23. ranger335v

    ranger335v Member

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    " If you have to ask, you probably don't understand,"

    Roger that.

    Adding solder or lead or epoxy filler in the folded rims will give you a cushion that will last a bit longer than nothing but even so it will soon deform and compact the rim. And a steel case rim will save the chamber but the potential for harm to the pin seems too high to do it that way. So, maybe just re-using a few spent cases would be cushion enough for a few firings before tossing them?

    Or, not knowing what you will be dry firing, perhaps it would be easy to remove the firing pin itself?
     
  24. Hans Esker

    Hans Esker Member

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    Just 'cause people keep asking, the firearm I am currently concerned with is my first, so I want to take care of it. It is a Sig Mosquito. Not only does the manual say not to dry fire, from what I have seen of its mechanical operation, the breechface will get peened without something to stop the firing pin.
     
  25. Acera

    Acera Member

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    Dude, all these people are attempting to help. Are you this rude all the time??
     
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