Auction: how much would you bid?

[Monkeyleg]

As is being discussed in another thread, I'm putting together a banquet/auction to benefit CCW in Wisconsin.

Just trying to get an idea of which guns would get the best bids. We're gettting the guns at dealer cost.

Here are some ideas I'm mulling:

Kimber Custom
Springfield Trophy Match
Bushmaster A2
S&W 686
Glock 19
Walther PPK/S?
Remington 870 Police or HD
Remington 1187 Police

I'm thinking that not many average folks like me attending would be able/willing to bid up guns that go much over $1000, although I have access to almost any makes and models of guns available.

When I've mentioned some higher-priced guns to the dealers, they've advised that they don't do well at auction. I specifically mentioned Springfield M1A's, Ed Browns, Les Baers, the top-of-the-line Kimbers, etc.

Any suggestions are much appreciated.

 

[mkeBob]

Maybe you should wait until the NRA convention in Milwaukee. You might find
some better buys or possibly even donations if you can offer them some free advertising. All the manufactures will be their......Bob

 

[Larry Ashcraft]

I've been to quite a few FNRA auctions and the guns almost always go over retail. Of course many will have the NRA logo on them, but not all. Last year we had a 28 ga Rem 870 Express (worth maybe $350) go close to $500.

Some people realize its for a good cause and don't mind. Some people just plain don't know what the guns are worth and get caught up in the bidding.

Guns with a lot of eye appeal or "flash" as we say in the committee meetings bring the most profit. Try a Henry Golden Boy or Big Boy (or both). People just love them, and cost on a Golden Boy is right at $300 with shipping. 1911s are always good, as are the latest hit for the CCW crowd (think Springfield XD45).

 

[sm]

Heartstrings and Pocketbooks

Adding to Larry's experience...

Kids.

Do the Marlin 25n and Crickets, Ruger Standard , or Buckmarks, Adult-Kid shooting at a range, a hunt, or fishing trip....etc.

Adults will pay more than the guns , range fee, and trips are worth if they have kids and /or grandkids...

"Grandpa is bidding on a gun for me..."
"Grandpa is bidding for us to shoot, hunt, fish someplace special "

We once had Ruark's "Old Man and The Boy" bring $100 , heated bidding battle between two Grandpas. We called a tie and let the Grandpa's each get a copy...for a C note - you should have seen the grins, of them kids and grandpa's...

Steve

 

[Larry Ashcraft]

Of course. Steve is right on the money, again. This is from a grandpa who has been there, done that.

Chipmunk, Cricket, Henry Mini Bolt, blued Ruger Mark II with 'ivory' grips mixed in with two or three grandpas and an auction... money's no object.

 

[AJ Dual]

I'll say it again. Inexpensive to middle of the road firearms. This is Wisconsin. Think affordable. It's all that Germanic stick-up-you-know-where blood in the population.

The handguns are fine, although the Springfield Trophy Match is a tad pricey*. The Remington Shottys are good for home defense, and have no handgun wait for the winning bidder either. However, I still say suitability for CCW is a plus, since that's our mission.

How about?

Kahr PM9
Glock 26
Kel-Tec P11
The new Kel-Tec 9mm singlestack.
Tarus Snubbie
Springfield Mil-Spec 1911A1
Ruger SP-101


Also, you might want to get an AR from Colt, Armalite, Olympic Arms, or one of the smaller, but price competitive, boutique AR makers. If "you know who" is still holding a grudge over the aborted MG shoot, and the aborted story they were forced to run, the Urinal-Sentinel will likely have copy reading, "And they auctioned off The Bushmaster rifle, the same gun favored by the D.C. Snipers..."

I say let them whine, the WCCA/WCCM got lots of interest from pro-gunners over the hatchet-job article last time, so I guess the "there is no bad publicity" theroy holds. However, if we prefer a low profile, it's something they might latch onto.

Also, can the firearms be on display at the Banquet hall? You know how selling works. If the bidders can see the actual guns and get their lust up, that would be a great help to the bidding. You know as well as I what a bunch of skinflints native Wisconsinites are, so we need every advantage we can get for the auction. Unless there's some serious fat-cats there, you and I both know 90% of the Cheeshead bidders will come in thinking they're going to snipe a gun cheap. So I also repeat the idea of smaller items like "tacticool" folding pocketknives, holsters, high-end pepper spray, SureFire flashlights etc.

And if you can get a gun-club to donate a membership, that would be 100% profit. And should it not sell at the minimum reserve, the WCCM is out nothing.

*And about my idea on the other thread. Is there any way the WCCM can arrange it to return the guns that don't meet the minimum bid, or buy them at cost only if and after they sell? Especialy if you can find them in existing dealer inventory. That way they've nothing to lose except a gun that's off thier shelf for a few days. I could understand a dealer being afraid of bringing in something that he might not sell, but his outlay is next to nothing if the at-cost gun is already in his inventory.

BTW, I think The Shooter's Shop owes you one. Big time. No?

 

[Larry Ashcraft]

Is there any way the WCCM can return the guns that don't meet the minimum bid?

I can almost guarantee that won't be something to worry about, and Pueblo CO is a price-shopping town if there ever was one.

We have lost money on some items at times, but they were always non-gun items that we paid too much for. The guns always bring at least retail.

 

[AJ Dual]

From: http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=1332064

The 10 stingiest, starting from the bottom, were New Hampshire, Massachusetts, New Jersey, Rhode Island, Wisconsin, Connecticut, Minnesota, Colorado, Hawaii and Michigan.

Sorry, not that I'm proud or anything, but we've got you miserly Coloradans beat. The only thing it seems Cheesheads will splurge on is beer and Packer tickets... We're listed right after those cantankerous Nor'easters. And WI's smack dab in the middle of the oh-so-laid back midwest...

BTW, the Packers crack got me thinking. Dick, put an appeal out to the WCCA mailing list! Maybe season ticket holders can donate a few Packers/Bucks/Brewer games worth? They often give away tickets to family/friends if they can't make a game anyway. Why not us?

You can just mail them back if they don't sell.... Then you're only out $.39 for stamps.

Hell, make the donors send the tickets in a SASE...

 

[Larry Ashcraft]

The 10 stingiest, starting from the bottom, were New Hampshire, Massachusetts, New Jersey, Rhode Island, Wisconsin, Connecticut, Minnesota, Colorado, Hawaii and Michigan.

AJ, you missed something.

Still, things change in the heat of an auction, believe me.

 

[AJ Dual]

I hope you're right.

We need the dough.

Our anti governor who we're trying to oust, practicaly prints his own, selling state contracts, the way the U.S. Treasury sells T-bills...

 

[Larry Ashcraft]

Number one thing you need...

Good Auctioneer.

I happen to be friends with one of the best, Bill Beamon. Pro-RKBA, and he can get the crowd wound up and ready to buy. Donates his time to our FNRA auction because he believes in what we are doing.

Really... That should be one of your main objectives. An auctioneer can make or break an auction.

Get the best...

 

[halvey]

Try to see if you can find a Winchester in 30-30. Or even a Model 70 if you can find them cheap. I like the .22 idea too, especailly a bolt gun or lever gun.

If WI is anything like MN, you need cheap guns. Seems like guys around here would rather buy 3 $200 guns than a nice $600 gun. That said, at farm auctions I've seen a lot of beat up run of the mill guns go for way more than they are worth. Sears 22 single shots for $100+. Single shot shotguns for $150+. And these were USED and used hard.

 

[Red Tornado]

You can just mail them back if they don't sell....

Packer tickets not sell in Wisconsin?!? That's a good one AJ.

Adding to the Cricket idea, you might even consider one of the pink Crickets. They don't cost much more, but Dad's and Grandpa's get real excited about things they like that their (grand)daughters might like as well.
RT

 

[sm]

Larry added another great point - Good Auctioneer.

I mean sometimes folks get so caught up and mesmerized "what happened, what did I buy?"
These guys are fascinating to not only hear, also to watch...just do not scratch your nose or swat any flies.

I do not want to sound sexist, we are adults here. DU we had young models in low cut dress with slilts up the side...working the men-folk. Then we had the young studs with tux ties, no shirts tux pants with tanned and toned bods working the gals. Oh yeah , raffle tickets get sold, and these get put in boxes to various prizes.

So we decided to steal that idea for a fundraiser for a kid's range.

Kids, the guys in Tshirts to look like male strippers, and the girls in T shirts appearing to be in Bikinis, evening dresses and the hit of the show...the 2 1/2 year old Cigar Girl.

She could not say "Cigar, Cigarette, Tiparillo" - still with that Cigar box held by a strap around her neck, big eyes, floosie beads and "please"....

We had folks chasing her down to buy raffle tickets.

Oh she had help, but there was no way a person could NOT buy raffle tickets from her.

She was more excited pulling the tickets from the boxes than the people winning the prizes...

A $39 Marlin 60 brought $200 and then donated to the range.
Bricks of .22 ammo brought up to $50
Again the Auctioneer.

One fella said he spent a C note with the "Cigar Gal" on raffle tickets, then had to buy $100 more " she stuffed most in the first box when I asked for help stuffing boxes "

He won the BBQ set...talk about a 'stuffed ballot box" *grin* Naturally the set was donated to the range.

Now the heated auction items at the kid's range? The BBQ grill, The Microwave and the case of Corn dogs...Lemoade mix, Igloo coolers for lemonade...

Seems the kids really really wanted to make sure there was something to eat,drink and kept raising adults hands...funny.

Pretty sure they would have guns, ammo, and targets...but eats , drinks they wanted to make darn sure they had these.

Heartstrings & Pocketbooks.

 

[Monkeyleg]

Thanks for the replies.

Larry Ashcraft, I'm debating the idea of having an auctioneer, and here's why: at other banquets I've been to, the auctioneer starts in right after dinner is finished. Still, that can run a long, long time.

In this case, we'll have Massad Ayoob speaking for nearly an hour after dinner. At our banquet in 2002, he took questions from the audience, which took another hour.

Maybe we could set it up so that people could write down their bids, and then the auctioneer could step in between Massad's speech and the Q&A session to try to get the bids up. (And give Mas a break).

One concern that keeps coming up both on the other thread I started as well as in conversations with a good friend who's been doing banquets here for a long time is this: people know what a gun is worth, and Cheeseheads will balk at bidding more than what they know they can get the gun for at Gander Mountain.

So, that got me to thinking about used guns in good condition. Shops typically pay a seller a third of what the gun would be worth new, then double the price. So, if we could buy, say, a used Glock 19 for $175, that gives us as much as a $175 profit if someone bids $350.

I really, really wish we could do raffles, but they're not legal.

But I just had an idea about how the WCCA could pick up the cost of at least part of the banquet. I just have to check with the state elections board.

Dangit! Why are government offices closed when people really need them?!!!

 

[Strings]

>I really, really wish we could do raffles, but they're not legal.<

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the "illegal" part that someone has to pay to have access to the raffle? What if we sell a few raffle tickets outside of the dinner? That would also alleviate the time problem...

 

[North Nick]

Dick,

I have been involved in many a Ducks Unlimited Dinner in WI in a fairly "cheap" community. What worked well for us were "Blue Light Specials" We would get a Ruger Red Label or Super Red Hawk and have 100 tickets for $10 a piece. When we sold them all we drew the ticket.

Another thing that worked was a "pick of the little" raffle. You sold tickets for $10 / 1 of $20 for 3. The winner got to pick the any prise at the dinner of their choice. (their were exclusions of course) We were able to raise some good money there.

When we tried to auction some of the dinner guns, they never went. We did a Blue light on one and we had to fight the tickets buyers off!

We ended up getting rid of the auction because it took to long and did not bring in enough money.

Good luck with your fund raiser. Please let me know when / where it is.

North Nick

 

[Barbara]

Dick, in Michigan, raffles and games of chance are illegal for anything other than (c)3 organizations, but games of skill are not. I believe you can charge an entry fee to a game of skill. Skills, of course, are somewhat subjective.

Trivia? Skill. Shooting? Skill. Ability to pat oneself on the head while rubbing ones tummy? Skill.

Check with an attorney. You might be able to charge entry fees for your contest, and then draw names until someone is able to answer the question correctly (who is the speaker for tonight's banquet, for instance.)

Check with your lawyer there, but I've seen this done in other places.

 

[Monkeyleg]

I hate to keep repeating myself, but any games of chance are illegal for political action committees, candidate campaigns, political parties, referendum groups, or any other groups associated with funding a candidate for office.

The WCCA--our rag-tag bunch of unpaid lobbyists--can hold raffles. But where would the money go? We cannot give it to candidates.

The WCCM---our political action committee--can only solicit contributions for candidates. We can't even mention legislation in our flyers or emails, as that's illegal.

I had an idea tonight, ran it by a close friend who knows the laws, and he said my idea might be right by the letter of the law, but might still violate the intent.

All I want to do is raise the most amount of contributions for real pro-gun candidates with the least amount of effort.

The Ayoob banquet, unless I'm very wrong, should net about $10,000 for our PAC. The more money we can raise from auctions for guns--new or used--the better the bottom line.

I just wish that more volunteers would take it upon themselves to organize fund-raisers, no matter how small. A five-hour shooting event can raise $1000+ with little or no effort.

 

[Monkeyleg]

Barbara, thanks for the suggestion. Actually, it's something I've thought about, but haven't figured out how to implement. Maybe it's airsoft guns at 50 feet, and the best shooter wins.

I know with 100% certainty that other PAC's, campaign committees and political parties have games of chance.

We can't operate that way, if for no other reason that I already managed to get our WCCA group in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel's "Spivak and Bice" muck-racking column. Compared to those two sumbiches, a colinoscopy is gentle.

Here's a quote from yesterday's column about a dentist who heads up an industry group:

********************
Barrette chalked up the dispute to a big misunderstanding. As part of his duties on the state board, he said, he is supposed to help out in the development of a national dental exam. Barrette said he is not paid to be a board member for ADEX.

Pressed further, the board chairman implied that he may be a victim of partisan politics.

"I'm just a little dentist up here in northern Wisconsin," said Barrette, a frequent donor to GOP candidates and a pal of Republican Assembly Speaker John Gard, a nemesis to Gov. Jim Doyle, a Democrat.

"I don't want to be in a position to criticize the Doyle administration. You guys are around - you see what happens with Doyle. I don't want to say any more."

It's not like we had to pull teeth for you to say that much.

***************

Politics is very, very dirty here, and Jim Doyle is a borderline gangster. And I'm not engaging in hyperbole here, either. He runs a shakedown operation, and a protection racket, and for more money than most of the gangsters from the 30's could ever imagine.

There can be nothing that we do that is not completely above board and absolutely legal.

 

[North Nick]

Didn't mean to make you repeat yourself about the game of chance. Didn't see mention of it on this post.

Good luck with raffle.

North Nick

 

[Rigby470]

What I've seen work best at auctions (DU, NWTF, RMEF etc.) is to have an assortment of guns in medium to low price range. And you want at least 1 high priced firearm available. This is because you will have an assortment of people in attendance. You want THIS auction to be profitable as well as NEXT year's auction. If you only have cheap guns available at the auction your big spenders will remember this fact when it comes around again next year and may not show up because they remember that you only had cheap firearms up for bid and no fancy stuff.

You want at least 1 really nice firearm available for your big spenders to get excited over, and for all the cheap spenders to watch. This is what makes auctions fun for EVERYONE.

 

[gazpacho]

Let some of your auction firearms be war surplus items. An authentic WW2 german mauser (for example) would create some action because of it's historic value. A reproduction (or original, for that matter) M1 Carbine would be a great prize.

And done forget accessories. A nice aluminum rifle case should fetch some bids. Maybe a Leupold scope or three.

See if you can get the NRA to donate some memberships.