Aurora, CO Massacre

[ronc0011]

So how many times can you pull the trigger of semiautomatic rifles and handguns in 3 minutes? Evidently, Lots!

When I go to the range i usually take at least two 100rnd boxes with meWhich I an run through in no time at all. In fact it's pretty difficult to make aq day of it att the range een with the breaks for changing targets and everything else that's why I usually take several guns with me to the range a shotgun for skeet and my rifle which gets really expensive to shoot, 308. One box of 308 is one magazine which goes really fast from an M1A . They're just too easy to shoot... Yehaa. No, really it is a lot of fun to shoot but the point is, depending on the gun yes you can do a lot of shooting My Kimber has a 14rnd mag and it will go through 40 or 50 rnd pretty quickly even with a couple of reloads and with extra mags Yeah they are saying on the news that he was shooting for r15 minutes and I'm scratching my head wondering what kind of shooting is he doing. i mean geezz If I were shoo9ting for 15 minutes I'd have to have a 100lbs of ammo with me.

 

[whenindo]

Tragic

I live about 8 miles from where this tragedy occurred. In fact my first job when I was 14 (a long time ago) was at the Aurora Mall.

I have a CHP (they don't call it CCW here in CO anymore, its a Concealed Handgun Permit).

In all honesty if I were in that theatre when this all went down, and I think you have to look at this realistically, I think I would have been as caught off-guard as everybody else that was there.

You are into a movie, its premiere night and all of the sudden here comes this guy all in black with Kevlar and a face mask. Oh cool! A premiere stunt. I am sure thats what most if not all of people there thought.

As far as the 911 calls and the police response questions above - that theatre is like 2 minutes away from the APD headquarters and yes, the police were on scene within 2 minutes from what I am hearing.

Had he not had accessibility to guns, he would have probably set up bombs or some other means of mass destruction. Remember Columbine? They actually used propane tank bombs (thankfully they were too stupid to actually make them work but the destruction could have been much worse than what it sadly was).

What we do have here is an obviously seriously screwed up human being who wanted his 2 minutes of fame, which he has gotten. CNN/MSNBC/Blah, Blah Blah have dedicated the day to it.

The theatre was his fishbowl and carrying or not, I am not sure how I would have taken him down even with my .357 hollow points since he was fully covered in Kevlar. I'd have given it a hell of a shot but from what I am hearing it happened so fast that I don't think anybody could have stopped him outside of a head shot once he started. Five of us carrying, yes maybe we would have stopped him, but with all the people scrambling... You just can't start shooting in the dark.

So, now all the gun control idiots (and yes, I mean idiots because they do not comprehend that people hell-bent on killing people will find ways to kill people even if that means an improvised propane tank or a sharp butter knife) are all coming out of the woodwork as expected.

This morning we have heard from the mayor of NY, Philidelphia and I am sure Chicago and Washington D.C. is coming soon. Detroit after that? Guess who has the highest murder rate outside of Juarez and also the strictest gun bans? Yep, them.

The "No-Gun" thing in Colorado? I won't put my money in the coffers of business' that display that sign and if I have to go to one of those establishments for whatever reason I'll conceal carry if I choose.

If something like this tragedy goes down and I am unfortunate enough to be there, I am going to at least have a fighting chance.

 

[B!ngo]

Thank you for your sentiments. I completely agree. Seems to me that this is a time best spent with thoughts for those who were killed and praying for the injured and all of the affected friends and families.
B

I could not agree more, I am a gun owner and a Second Amendment Advocate , I am also a Human Being and Pray for all those affected

 

[Tango57]

I listened to the press conference live. The FBI guy said they are following up on leads that span across state lines.

Anyone know what he meant or if he was just justifying their presence by saying in case leads came up?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk when i should have been doing something useful

 

[Certaindeaf]

.In all honesty if I were in that theatre when this all went down, and I think you have to look at this realistically, I think I would have been as caught off-guard as everybody else that was there..

This one fellow by name of Cooper would right off the bat preach to prepare your mind.. try to not get "caught off-guard" and or visualize potentialities

 

[whenindo]

Certainly true.

But if you are realistic and understand the circumstances (premiere and big hoop-de-do) you yourself, unless you are one bad-ass paranoid probably would have been caught off-guard too.

Just my .02

 

[fehhkk]

His mother lives in San Diego, the news said.

 

[Certaindeaf]

^whenindo,
I hear you. There but for the grace of God..

 

[Tony_the_tiger]

Lets keep the speculation to a minimum and use this thread to express our deep and sincere sympathies to the victims of this tragedy.

 

[SilentStalker]

It almost seems as if this guy had some training from somewhere. I mean just the way everything played out, the way he supposedly got in, etc. I mean flash bangs, teargas, armor, etc. of which most of these things are highly regulated. Then you have him rigging his apartment with bombs and tripwires and junk so I heard. I mean how do you go from a med student to all of that and even if you got your hands on it, how does one learn about making trip wires and junk unless they have had some form of training. It all seems a little strange to me. In any case, this is very, very sad. My prayers go out to all involved.

 

[bikerdoc]

Why do the badly, behaved, metally ill, had a bad childhood, Momma never loved me, get a pass and the media goes to gun?

 

[RangerHAAF]

And so it starts again. Why do they even bother?

 

[4tsmith]

Had a few questions and issues that I haven't seen yet:
Was this a 3D movie?If so it might have dramatically altered every ones reaction time.

This appeared at first to be a promotional stunt(according to many witnesses)Element of surprise and confusion,how quickly would you have reacted REALLY?

In massive events like explosions,earthquakes,fires etc...99% are too confused to react and instead usually freeze before they even panic...This crowd was in pure condition WHITE...and it was probably ten or fifteen seconds before anyone reacted.

In the confusion the attacker appears to be nearly identical to the people that we expect to be coming to the rescue.(swat..etc.) Is he alone ?

You are in the darkened kill box with hundreds of other victims,what do you do? Hindsight is 20/20 but whats your call?
Do you ignore the children or loved ones that have gone to the movie with you and possibly in violation of local carry laws,draw you trusty J frame,P3at,Lcp9 and confront this well prepared gunman?
Do you join the panicked knots of fleeing patrons clogging the aisles and perhaps give the gunman/lunatic dozens of easy targets?
Do you drag everyone to the floor and tell them to play possum while you try to focus,locate,increase orientation,calculate the potential for escape and evasion,wet clothing with soft drink to counter breathing difficulty,evaluate and seek better cover?
(will your family respond to commands similar to those used in fire,evacuation drills?Of course you do those drills,RIGHT?)

Do you believe the al-Qaeda manifesto and the frequent musings of the radical left when they advocate mass public violence to disrupt social structures?(occupy mob violence,flash mobs,disruption of social services and events)( you won't have to wander far to find violent revolution,time for blood in the streets advocacy...blah..blah...blah)

This doesn't effect me.There are a few advantages to being a cheap old dog who doesn't enjoy the idea of being in an expensive,inconvenient,box with hundreds of rude noisy,loud people and the attendant chatter and cell phones.Heck I don't even miss waiting in the line with the rest of the mob.
At the mall today I found myself within one step of my busily chattering daughter and niece...quietly aware of exits,traffic,body language.movement;not hyper alert,just you know...normal margin of error.
Whats your take on any of this?

 

[.455_Hunter]

My thoughts as an almost lifelong Metro Denver resident

Wow- what a morning to wake-up to...

Though I have never been to this specific theater, my wife and I do frequent similar establishments around the city. Regardless of the theater's dumb sign, I always carry, since violating the "rules" is the same as "no shoes, no shirt, no service". Unless they asked you to leave, and you don't, there are no legal repercussions. Concealed is concealed! We see if any of this changes in the future (good or bad).

Though firing back may not stop the carnage, it MAY disrupt plans enough to allow more people to escape. This not the same as escalating the level of violence with "calm" convenience store or bank robber instead of sneaking out the back door with your family. In my mind, you would have a moral obligation to do something if you had a clear shot on a guy who is actively killing innocents (or YOU), even if it is 9 rounds of .25 ACP out of a 950BS.

Unfortunately, as my good friend said in a text this morning, "Midnight on a weekday, most sheepdogs are sleeping..."

Given the close proximity of a sold-out theater, I am not surprised by the total number of wounded. Easy to get hits on multiple targets with a shotgun and secondary impacts of pass throughs when it is essentially a "wall of people” for a target.

For whatever reason, the good people of Colorado get to deal with another one of these tragedies. I morn for the lost and pray for the injured.

 

[hso]

SilentStalker,

There are scores of Internet sources for this information, but any Chemistry student can come up with the pyro/explosive devices. Ted Kaczynski wasn't trained to become the Unibomber, but he made devices that worked and mailed them to his victims.

Do we ban knowledge and science when they're abused by the evil? No, but there r some that will make these and equally wrong-headed demands.

 

[Pistol Ranch]

I am interested in how the shooter got in the theatre with a shotgun, rifle, two pistols and enough ammo to kill/wound over 70 people.
Was he wearing a cape??
Next up; metal detectors, scanners and official gropers in every movie house

 

[.455_Hunter]

I am interested in how the shooter got in the theatre with a shotgun, rifle, two pistols and enough ammo to kill/wound over 70 people.

He came in through an external exit door straight into the theater.

The thought is that he bought a ticket and went into the theater normally. After a few minutes, he left his seat and exited through the non-alarmed external door, propping it open with something to keep it from re-latching. He drove his car to the door and donned his equipment, reentering the theater to begin the chaos.

 

[ehanger]

Why even bother commenting on threads like this? All we do is repeat pro-gun arguments to each other that we already know and agree with...

This will lead to the same blah blah blah media coverage that we always get after such tragic massacres. The libs will cry for more gun control using the same stale arguments that we've been hearing for years while the conservatives will counter with their tried and true arguments, there will be proposals for legislation etc, people will debate, and then in end ... absolutely nothing will happen

 

[Fatdaddy]

This incident makes me really reconsider some of my carry choices.ie..lcp, jframe, makarov

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

I am interested in how the shooter got in the theatre with a shotgun, rifle, two pistols and enough ammo to kill/wound over 70 people.
Was he wearing a cape??
Next up; metal detectors, scanners and official gropers in every movie house

He came in through an external exit door straight into the theater.

What .455 said but here's how it really went down according to witnesses.

The gunman was sitting in the front row. He acted like he got a phone call and went out the Emergency Exit which he propped open to get back in. He suited up and got his guns and walked back in and started the event.

 

[gossamer]

Unfortunately, I predict too many of my fellow Pro-RKBA friends will fall into the old traps of defensiveness and reaction instead of education and cool-headedness. I've seen this starting already.

Sites like ThinkProgress are telling people that the AR15 would have been illegal under Brady Bill. And their followers are asking the same old questions "WHO NEEDS THIS?!?" blah blah blah.

Unfortunately, I've also already seen pro-2 folks talking they same old garbage too.

It's always better to educate, empathize, and be rational.

 

[gunnutery]

It almost seems as if this guy had some training from somewhere. I mean just the way everything played out, the way he supposedly got in, etc. I mean flash bangs, teargas, armor, etc. of which most of these things are highly regulated. Then you have him rigging his apartment with bombs and tripwires and junk so I heard. I mean how do you go from a med student to all of that and even if you got your hands on it, how does one learn about making trip wires and junk unless they have had some form of training. It all seems a little strange to me. In any case, this is very, very sad. My prayers go out to all involved.

I don't know, it doesn't take much training to shoot into a crowd. It also doesn't take much training to know how to build bombs. If you have time and dedication, you can learn a lot on your own and study on your own. If he was a med student then he probably wasn't exactly stupid and may have already had a knowledge of sciences. I'm curious to hear (if we hear at all) what type of materials he used in his appartment.

 

[4tsmith]

Lost track of the number of theaters and public venues I've installed alarmed panic bars on over the years.
Keeps people from sneaking in but allows emergency egress.Wonder what happened here.

 

[Agsalaska]

I have not read the entire thread so forgive me if this has already been mentioned multiple times.


It would have been a very difficult situation from a CCW holder to fight back, considering your average CCW person is limited in training. This was a dark, loud, theater with mass hysteria, tear gas, and an AR15 letting loose. Good luck with that shot.

But I think the argument is the expectations of the assassin. So maybe there is one or two CCW's in the crowd. But what about 20? Then does he change his mind, targets, or tactics. Its hard to say for certain but a reasonable conclusion would be he pick a different target.

Which brings me to my last point. He is going to find a target and a way. Not a single shot was fired on 911. Or Ok City. Or Egypt Air. How do you stop it. Beats the hell out of me. Its hapened as long as we have been around.

 

[DefiantDad]

Just to consolidate the discussion into this thread as HSO suggested; something relevant:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akihabara_massacre

The Akihabara massacre was an incident of mass murder that took place on Sunday, June 8, 2008, in the Akihabara shopping quarter for electronics, video games and comics in Sotokanda, Chiyoda, Tokyo, Japan.

At 12:33 p.m. JST, a man hit a crowd with a truck, eventually killing three people and injuring two; he then stabbed at least 12 people using a dagger (initially reported as a survival knife), killing four people and injuring eight.

Tokyo Metropolitan Police Department arrested Tomohiro Katō, 25, on suspicion of attempted murder. The suspect, dressed then in a black T-shirt with a jacket and off-white trousers, was a resident of Susono, Shizuoka. He was held at the Manseibashi Police Station.

Two days later on June 10, he was sent to the Tokyo District Public Prosecutor's Office. He was later re-arrested by the police on June 20 on suspicion of murder. During the trial, prosecutors sought the death penalty, and the Tokyo District Court agreed, sentencing Kato to death.

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osaka_school_massacre

At 10:15 that morning, 37-year-old former janitor Mamoru Takuma entered the school armed with a kitchen knife and began stabbing numerous school children and teachers. He killed eight children, mostly between the ages of seven and eight, and seriously wounded thirteen other children and two teachers.

I am sure the analogy and point is obvious. Weapons used: Knives. Automobile.