Austrailia gun ban fail
- Thread starter AABEN
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What gun ban? - I have four handguns and my dad's 243 and double-barrel 12-gauge, all legally owned. The branch of the SSAA that I am a member of (Sporting Shooters Association of Australia (note - you spelt the name of my country wrong.......)) has over thirty thousand members. This is only sporting shooters at that branch of that club, and doesn't include all the primary producers / rural land owners / armed security and police. Keep in mind our population is 1/10th of the USA.
We've never had a right to bare arms in our constitution and gun culture here was never and still isn't the same as in the USA.
What our gun law changes did, after the Martin Bryant Port Arthur massacre (knee-jerk change, yes, and there are too many restrictions for my liking) is reduce the likelihood that a moron will get his hands on a gun and go nuts with it. It allowed people to either uphold their new licensing requirements and keep their firearms or sell them to the government. Guns were not banned - firearms were re-categorised and licensing requirements were changed basically to require a reason for having it, like for sport shooting, or recreation shooting if you own land.
We've never had a right to bare arms in our constitution and gun culture here was never and still isn't the same as in the USA.
What our gun law changes did, after the Martin Bryant Port Arthur massacre (knee-jerk change, yes, and there are too many restrictions for my liking) is reduce the likelihood that a moron will get his hands on a gun and go nuts with it. It allowed people to either uphold their new licensing requirements and keep their firearms or sell them to the government. Guns were not banned - firearms were re-categorised and licensing requirements were changed basically to require a reason for having it, like for sport shooting, or recreation shooting if you own land.
MachIVshooter
Member
The one that leaves you unable to take pictures like these in your own home:
Not trying to be rude, but while not an ouright ban, your gun rights are severely restricted and regulated compared to ours.
MedWheeler
Member
Neither have we, but there are few areas within the US that prohibit the wearing of sleeveless shirts. Pretty sure they're OK "down under" as well..
9MMare
Member
Is self defense one allowable reason? And do you have to have a direct reason why you need it, like a dangerous job, someone is stalking you, etc?
Archangel14
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I may be incorrect, but wasn't it the decree of some health minister in AU whereby handguns owners had a certain amount of time to give up their handguns? If I lived in Perth, can I just go to a gun shop and but a semi-auto pistol?
I can't speak for other states in Australia but these are the gun laws/restrictions in the state of Queensland.
http://www.police.qld.gov.au/programs/weaponsLicensing/
http://www.police.qld.gov.au/programs/weaponsLicensing/
9MMare
Member
Thank you. It says I must have a legitimate reason for the gun.
Is self-defense a legitimate reason? Or does there have to be an actual threat or regular dangerous circumstances?
chemist308
Member
I watched the video and nearly threw up. Weren't we all raised to understand such a tyrannical move by a government would be an act of war against the people? Their people allowed this?!
SDC
Member
Here's another interesting article that looks at the Australian response to Port Arthur; http://reason.com/archives/2012/12/22/gun-restrictions-have-always-bred-defian . It's interesting to note that after Howard banned semi-auto rifles, the entire country had around 640 thousand such rifles turned in for destruction, yet in only the few years PRIOR to the ban, almost a MILLION SKSs were imported from China, so what happened to all of the OTHER SKSs, PLUS all the other semi-autos (10/22s, Mini-14s, Garands, Brownings, etc., etc., etc.) that were in Australia before that tool Howard banned them? After they estimated that the compliance rate with their ban was less than 20%, they did what every OTHER gun control bureaucrat on the planet has done, and "revised" their initial estimates of the actual numbers of the guns in the country downwards, just so they could declare victory.
MachIVshooter
Member
So I take it category A & B weapons are fairly easy to procure, category C & H are doable but require a great deal more trouble, category D probably requires some special need be demonstrated and category R are nigh impossible for civilians?
Silverado6x6
Member
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- Mar 23, 2009
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I plan on taking an extended stay in Oz maybe as early as this year, my collection is robust to say the least but I have no qualms about leaving it all in secure storage while in Oz. And if I stay I plan on acquiring a 3D printer, a mill and lathe, and the metal casting equipment to make castings from the 3D printer. I see a welcome field in Ox, I see a very restrictive and hostile field in the USA.
i just spent 20 minutes typing up a big reply and lost it while this site was doing maintenance.
anyways heres the short version.
here in Oz we cannot use self defence as a legitimate excuse to own a firearm.
in my state it took me 10 months to gain my firearms licence. this only allows me the use of rimfire and centrefire (this state has just banned the .338 lapua).
handgun ownership requires more training and certification and permission is only given for club based target shooting.
please dont allow your country to follow us as it appears in the media.
here are some government stats if your interested:
http://www.aic.gov.au/statistics/homicide.html
im happy to answer any questions you may have.
anyways heres the short version.
here in Oz we cannot use self defence as a legitimate excuse to own a firearm.
in my state it took me 10 months to gain my firearms licence. this only allows me the use of rimfire and centrefire (this state has just banned the .338 lapua).
handgun ownership requires more training and certification and permission is only given for club based target shooting.
please dont allow your country to follow us as it appears in the media.
here are some government stats if your interested:
http://www.aic.gov.au/statistics/homicide.html
im happy to answer any questions you may have.
Well, Australia, and the rest of the world does not have the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution guaranteeing that our God given right of using arms to defend ourselves is not infringed. The Heller decision incorporated the 2A as an individual right with the majority opinion stating that firearms that are in "Common Use" are protected under the ruling. The AR-15 is the single most prolific rifle in the U.S. I would think that would qualify as "Common Use".
However, we can not stand idley by while AWB's or NFA registration requirements are forced on us until it can be argued by the courts. We must let our legislators know we will FIRE THEM and end their gravy trains should the even entertain more gun control laws.
However, we can not stand idley by while AWB's or NFA registration requirements are forced on us until it can be argued by the courts. We must let our legislators know we will FIRE THEM and end their gravy trains should the even entertain more gun control laws.
9MMare
Member
Thanks very much for your time and your answer.
And I am doing what I can to keep that from happening here.
AABEN
Member
Are you saying that the report that they took all of those guns is not true??? Why did we the USA have to give guns to you"ll when WW11 broke out to save you'll?? You all had gun till they told you all to turn them in.
I think that was the UK. Don't know of program to Australia. Was there one?
Anyway - I agree with the sentiment that if gun use is definitionally defined as sport there is no RKBA.
IIRC, the Australians tried to defend owning 'bad' guns under the rubric of sport as all Australian males must have a sport. Didn't work. According to an Australian friend - those who wanted 'bad' guns were seen as nutters.
The same argument was made in the UK - guns for sport. Didn't work. I have some old UK gun rags where they made fun of us for being nutters for using humanoid targets in IPSC or IDPA. They also have RKBA.
Anyway - I agree with the sentiment that if gun use is definitionally defined as sport there is no RKBA.
IIRC, the Australians tried to defend owning 'bad' guns under the rubric of sport as all Australian males must have a sport. Didn't work. According to an Australian friend - those who wanted 'bad' guns were seen as nutters.
The same argument was made in the UK - guns for sport. Didn't work. I have some old UK gun rags where they made fun of us for being nutters for using humanoid targets in IPSC or IDPA. They also have RKBA.
There have been a couple of amnesties for handing in guns that were illegally owned or would not be legal under the new system.
If you had a license, sure you can go into a gun shop and buy one. Like MachIVShooter pointed out though, our laws are quite restricted compared to the USA, and you would need to get a permit to be able to take possession of the firearm. The permit is from weapons licensing branch of the police and once used / you take possession, it is returned to them with the info and the gun is registered to your license. And I think what MachIVShooter was most pointing out is the main major change that happened is basically the inability to get a semi-auto rifle now, which is about the biggest bummer of it, but there are also other things that aren't great either.
Basically all the licensing is around a "genuine reason" - meaning you can't get a license just because, you need to either have a job where carrying a firearm is part of the job, or get a rifle / shotgun (no semi-autos though) license for recreational shooting if you own land or are a member of a club with a range, or a license for sports shooting. I think the main benefit of this is that it is a big disincentive to people with a passing interest or think having a gun would be cool. The type of people who wouldn't treat firearms with the maturity and discipline that they require, like the type of people who shouldn't be driving cars.
I just wanted to point out that what we have here is pretty far from a total ban. Whenever our laws are brought up it is almost always the ultimate example of "blown out of proportion", which, with how passionate gun people are, is understandable, but being understandable doesn't make it correct. Once the majority of people get over the "the sky's falling", "the gubmint's stepping on the man", etc, etc and actually looked at what has changed and how to work with the new laws, it is not as draconian as it originally seemed.
Took isn't the right word, that implies they weren't paid for the firearms, which they were. People could also have sorted out their license under the new laws (if possible), and kept their firearms, but back then there wouldn't have been quite as many opportunities as there are now to be able to do that. The main source of "mandatory" (no other choice under the new laws) hand-ins would have been semi-auto rifles which were categorised such that you can't get one for recreational shooting or sports shooting, etc.
I know I sound like I'm fairly well 100% for these laws, but that's not true, a whole bunch of things in there stink, but unfortunately, as I get older especially, it seems these laws suit the maturity of the majority. Less people now care about what they do and how that affects others, don't take responsibility for themselves, and until that's rectified, things won't get any better in any aspect of human life on this planet. There used to be a time (not long ago, really) when you would work to prove you were worthy, were responsible and trustworthy enough and then you achieved something. Now everyone wants everything and they want it now, and there's nothing stopping them from going out and buying 99% of these things, with no value gained to themselves by doing so. Even things you can't buy, like the ability to play a guitar, which only comes through dedication and hard work, is not appreciated by anyone (except those few who actually do it themselves).
Well there you go, a little ranting, a little philosophy, lol.
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