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Author of Florida Stand your ground law says his law doesn't protect shooter

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by usmarine0352_2005, Mar 22, 2012.

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  1. usmarine0352_2005

    usmarine0352_2005 Member

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    http://www.coloradoconnection.com/news/politics/story.aspx?id=733228#.T2t_TdXYRsI






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  2. The Lone Haranguer

    The Lone Haranguer Member

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    No thinking person believes otherwise. It isn't a shield or immunity from wrongdoing. Unfortunately, from the news coverage I've seen, thinking people seem to be in abeyance.
     
  3. chrt396

    chrt396 Member

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    That's kind of what I thought when I heard the story. Don't understand why they have not arrested the guy! The law is a good one..we just have a guy (GZ), that obviously did not interpret the law very well.
     
  4. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

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    Well maybe not. As is being discussed in the legal thread on this law, there do appear to be some problems the Florida legislature needs to attend to. The self defense statute doesn't bar the defense for those who create the confrontation--only for those who are breaking a law. When combined with burden-shifting rules and some questionable restrictions the legislature chose to impose on the LEO's investigating these cases, the results can be troublesome.

    Emotions are running remarkably high over this issue, and there's a tendency to dig heels in and refuse to budge. But this is one time we should pay attention to a potential shortcoming in this particular law and FIX IT, so we don't end up seeing a reversal of the fundamental gains. I particularly don't like the provisions which seek to tie the hands of law enforcement. The legislature is ill-suited to micro manage cops on the beat.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2012
  5. Tommygunn

    Tommygunn Member

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    Well, from what I've read of this incident, Zimmerman's actions do not by any reasonable means fall within stand your ground rules. He went after Trayvor Martin and that is NOT STANDING YOUR GROUND.
    Sorry. Zimmerman is toast. At the very least he showed very very bad judgement. And that's before we get into the legal issues.
     
  6. JRH6856

    JRH6856 Member

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    The point is, the FL statue conveying immunity from prosecution (FS 776.032) is not part of the Stand Your Ground law (FS 776.013), it is a separate section.
     
  7. steelerdude99

    steelerdude99 Member

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    I have not viewed the text of the Florida Stand Your Ground statute nor am I a lawyer. That said; the author’s intent often is not reflected the written text of a law. The result keeps the Supreme Court jurists employed for life.

    Chuck
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2012
  8. AABEN

    AABEN Member

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    The man was in the wrong when he got out of his car!! He was told not to do any thing!! So there fore he has his A++ in the slang.
     
  9. JRH6856

    JRH6856 Member

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    So he was told by then operator not to follow. Do instructions from a police operator carry the same weight as instructions from a police officer? The law might require that one comply with instructions from a police officer, but most operators are not sworn police officers so there may be no legal compulsion to comply.

    Following another person is not an illegal act unless one has to tresspass in the process. There is no indication that trespass was involved. If both actors were on public property, then both had a legal right to be there meaning both had a right to "stand [their] ground and meet force with force." if there was a confrontation.

    There are problems with the actual code eliminating the duty to retreat when combined with the way the defense is treated in Florida's courts. While picking a fight with someone and taking the first punches is not illegal, shooting the puncher dead and claiming self defense would strike most as very questionable. Yet that's precisely what can happen under Florida's law as it is currently drafted. With the shooter as the sole witness, he can easily make his prima facie case of self defense and the state is left to scrounge for evidence to disprove self defense. Was the harm really "grave"? Who can say. Let's say there's a broken nose perhaps and some scrapes. The shooter can claim he was being beaten badly and nobody will be able to disprove him beyond a reasonable doubt. Evidence that the shooter provoked the assault will be irrelevant, since verbal teasing or taunting is not criminal. (thanks to Cosmoline for this summary paragraph)

    Once a person claims self defense, FL law immunizes hem from arrest, criminal prosecution or civil litigation until such time as the defense is disproved. While the police may investigate, they may not arrest until they have probable cause to believe that the use of lethal force was not justified. When there are no witnesesses other than the survivor, this is difficult at best.
     
  10. Onmilo

    Onmilo Member

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    I don't think any law will protect someone who hunts down and kills a teenager who was armed with a can of ice tea and a bag of candy.
    God forbid I hope there is no law out there anyway,
     
  11. usmarine0352_2005

    usmarine0352_2005 Member

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    They need to build up enough evidence. They don't want to arrest him too early and then lose out. You have the right to a speedy trial. If they go to court to early without all of their ducks in a row they would lose.


    This is a huge case, I'm sure the prosecution wants to cross all of their T's and dot all of their I's before they go to trial.



    It's also not police chief's fault. He's a scapegoat. He probably hasn't made an arrest in over a decade. Just because you want someone arrested and he isn't doesn't mean you remove the police chief. It's the DA's decision to press charges and if he does then a warrant is put out, and it's still not the chief who goes out and arrests him.



    It's called the "Stand your ground" law, not the chase down, instigate violence and then murder law. If that's how it happened the shooter should be charged with murder.



    The law also should not be repealed because of this.
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    Last edited: Mar 22, 2012
  12. chevyman097

    chevyman097 Member

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    Do we really have to have 23 threads on this topic?
     
  13. Kaeto

    Kaeto Member

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    I think it's a political move by the cops to try to get the law removed.
     
  14. Nico Testosteros

    Nico Testosteros Member

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    Just like Fast and Furious was a subterfuge to get a new AWB. Interesting.
     
  15. Unistat

    Unistat Member

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    You are assuming police do not like this law. Most of the rank and file cops I know are pro-2a and self defense, and as you can see, we live in the same area. I'm probably only 4 or 5 miles away from you.

    Now, if you had said "police administration" or "elected officials" I would be far more inclined to agree.
     
  16. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    Indeed not.
     
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