Autocomp for 9MM

[deadeye dick]

Don't see this powder mentioned much especially for 9MM. I recently acquired some and loaded some Hornady XTP 115 gr.slugs. 5.0 gr. autocomp with a OAL of 1.125 Put 100 rounds downrange with no FTF or fire. 2" groups at 15 yds. off a rest. S&W M&P 9c I also like titegroup through the same gun with 3.8 gr. under a 125 gr.RNL with a OAL of 1.155 Any comments good or bad.

 

[Dog Soldier]

Thanks for the info on Auto-Comp. The factory Rep. was handing out sample cans of Auto Comp at a Combat Seminar I was speaking at last April. I have intended to check it out for the .38 Super Comp loads. Thanks for sharing your experience.

 

[Hangingrock]

I batch load a thousand rounds of 9mm-Luger at a time. With the 124FMJ the powder charge 5.0Grs of Win-AutoComp ( Mixed head stamp cases and Win-SP or CCI-SP primers) I do not shoot off a rest but rather from standing accuracy is excellent compares favorably with commercial ammunition. Pistols used Glock G17&G19, S&W MP9&MP9c, and Ruger RAP9.

 

[Rule3]

Yes, I have used a lot of it. In 9, 40 and 45. I bought a large jug of it when I could not find HP38.

Burn rate is around HS6 and AA 5, CFE pistol

It had just arrived on the "scene" Heck I thought it meant "competition" not Compensator,

I think it is all hype about the "more gas to fill compensators" How does it do that? It just makes more gas. Loads are pretty close to HP38 just uses a little more. Meters fine, Works fine for me.

AUTOCOMP is extremely fine in the 38 Super, 9mm, 45 ACP and 40 S&W race guns. It’s just the perfect burning speed to feed the compensators with a higher volume of gas. With AUTOCOMP competitors get off faster shots with minimal muzzle flash, it’s a winner.

 

[Ghost In The Fog]

Don't see this powder mentioned much especially for 9MM. I recently acquired some and loaded some Hornady XTP 115 gr.slugs. 5.0 gr. autocomp with a OAL of 1.125 Put 100 rounds downrange with no FTF or fire. 2" groups at 15 yds. off a rest. S&W M&P 9c I also like titegroup through the same gun with 3.8 gr. under a 125 gr.RNL with a OAL of 1.155 Any comments good or bad.

I have used AutoComp quite a bit. My first powder actually. I loaded 125Gr. Zero JHP's with 5.0 Gr. of AutoComp and it ran through the chrono at 983 fps. If I remember right, 5.2 Gr is max accordong to the Winchester site. I need to be at 1000 fps for IDPA power factor with the 125 gr. bullet. I also tested Berry's 124Gr. Target Hollow Point with 5.0 and it ran at 1023 fps average. I don't have my spread sheet here at work, but I think my COAL for the AutoComp and 125 was 1.075 and 1.060 for the Berry's- They have it listed on the Berry's website.

It was a good powder for me. It metered really well with my Lee Auto Drum. I just wasn't comfortable being at the high end of the load data. Now that I understand so much more about reloading, I would have no problem switching back to AutoComp.

 

[Walkalong]

I think it is all hype about the "more gas to fill compensators" How does it do that? It just makes more gas.

More gas makes the comp work better. More upward push from the extra gas. It really does work.

 

[Rule3]

More gas makes the comp work better. More upward push from the extra gas. It really does work.

Gas? It holds it's gas until it reaches the compensator? Must be gas in the barrel also. More gas would mean more velocity to me.

More flatulence

 

[Walkalong]

It holds it's gas until it reaches the compensator? Must be gas in the barrel also.

Yes

More gas would mean more velocity to me.

Yes
Burning powder creates gas, the vast majority of which goes out the barrel in an autoloader. The locked breech designs make sure of that by keeping the action locked until pressures go down.

Redirecting the gas coming out of the barrel through the comp exerts downward force on the gun helping it stay on target. The more gas the more effective the comp is. More powder makes more gas. It need to be a slower powder to keep pressures down. So, you get added velocity and added gas using a slower powder which helps the comp work better despite more recoil energy from more powder/more velocity.

Should be some examples on utube.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I think there arrangers reasons,why AutoComp is rarely mentioned but one is not that it doesn't work well. When it was announced it was very difficult to find. Soon after CFE-Pistol was released and while it wasn't always available it was more so available than AutoComp. Since both are similar more loaders tried CFE-Pistol instead. AutoComp being designed for compensated handguns was not recommended by less informed store clerks thinking it was only for pistols with a can. I'm sure there are many more but those two come to mind right off. I'm sure lack of availability when released was the biggest reason. (all IMO of course)

 

[ny32182]

I'm not an open shooter, but I know it is popular with open gun shooters that are in fact using it to drive a compensator.

If you are using it in IDPA.... book max may say 5.2 somewhere, but a quick Google shows that open guys are using about 6.9 or 7.0gr to get a 124gr bullet up to about 1400 fps.... so I wouldn't have any qualms about pushing it higher to get to a consistent minor power factor if it is what you have.

Chances are though, you will have a very dirty incomplete burn if you are loading it for minor... that would be my guess based on using HS6 for minor.

In summary I don't know why 5.2gr would be listed as a max for a 124gr bullet as that would seem very low. You can make minor reliably with a much faster powder that will be both volumetricly more efficient, and will probably burn cleaner in that application.

 

[Wreck-n-Crew]

Good for compensated guns for sure. Fine powder. Meters well. I get decent loads with it. I have a partial lb. left. Ran through a lb. previously. I love it in 40 S&W with a 165gr RNFP. One accurate load for me when I had a 40 with a Ported barrel.

My carry loads are Autocomp. Think ill switch to PP though. Maybe use the rest up and switch over to consolidate powders.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Good for compensated guns for sure. Fine powder. Meters well. I get decent loads with it. I have a partial lb. left. Ran through a lb. previously. I love it in 40 S&W with a 165gr RNFP. One accurate load for me when I had a 40 with a Ported barrel.

My carry loads are Autocomp. Think ill switch to PP though. Maybe use the rest up and switch over to consolidate powders.

You do know how loud PP is and how much flash it generates, right? On the same note, I like Longshot in upper end 9mm loads but hesitant to use it most times because it's so loud and somewhat flashy.

 

[Wreck-n-Crew]

You do know how loud PP is and how much flash it generates, right?

Oh yes. that's my 10mm powder. I love it ! can see why some might not.

 

[Potatohead]

I like AC very much. Have quite a bit too, it's the only powder I could find their for awhile. Just yesterday used it for 40SW for the first time and it performed well. I cant say that for many of the other powders Ive tried with 40SW so far either.
Speaking of PP and 40SW, I've had not a bit of success there.

 

[Rule3]

Yes

Yes
Burning powder creates gas, the vast majority of which goes out the barrel in an autoloader. The locked breech designs make sure of that by keeping the action locked until pressures go down.

Redirecting the gas coming out of the barrel through the comp exerts downward force on the gun helping it stay on target. The more gas the more effective the comp is. More powder makes more gas. It need to be a slower powder to keep pressures down. So, you get added velocity and added gas using a slower powder which helps the comp work better despite more recoil energy from more powder/more velocity.

Should be some examples on utube.

Plug in the data for Auto comp, CFE, HS6 and W231 with a 45 acp 230 gr FMJFP

I see no advantage in using AC. Gas is created with any powder and it can not be controlled to be "used solely in a compensator"

Use less W231 and get almost the same velocity and pressure.

CFE Pistol is almost the same burn rate almost the same loads but unfortunately measured in different cup vs psi

I am not a comp shooter and only have one comped 45 but I can not tell any difference Maybe the guys that shoot thosands of rounds can but they can also tell what the new super new lube on the rails is,

I can not make the chart print correctly

https://www.hodgdon.com/basic-manual-inquiry.html

https://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Burn Rates - 2015-2016.pdf

Weight230 GR. HDY FMJ FP
Starting Loads
Maximum Loads
Manufacturer
Powder
Bullet Diam.
C.O.L.
Grs.
Vel. (ft/s)
Pressure
Grs.
Vel. (ft/s)
Pressure
Hodgdon
HS-6
.451"
1.200"
8.0
790
14,400 CUP
8.2
825
15,400 CUP
Hodgdon
CFE Pistol
.451"
1.200"
6.0
815
16,000 PSI
6.8
934
19,800 PSI
Winchester
AutoComp
.451"
1.200"
6.0
789
13,800 CUP
6.6
871
17,100 CUP
Winchester
231
.451"
1.200"
4.2
751
13,800 CUP
5.3
832
16,800 CUP

 

[Hangingrock]

If you are using it in IDPA.... book max may say 5.2 somewhere, but a quick Google shows that open guys are using about 6.9 or 7.0gr to get a 124gr bullet up to about 1400 fps.... so I wouldn't have any qualms about pushing it higher to get to a consistent minor power factor if it is what you have.

Those individuals have more nerve than I do (6.9/7.0Grs)

 

[Walkalong]

I see no advantage in using AC. Gas is created with any powder and it can not be controlled to be "used solely in a compensator"

Yes, gas is created with any powder, I don't know what you mean by "used solely in a compensator", unless you are talking about they way they marketed AC. More gas does make a comp work better though. A larger charge makes more gas, so using a slower powder makes the comp work better due to the larger charge weight, whether AC is best for that purpose or not.

??

 

[ny32182]

Those individuals have more nerve than I do (6.9/7.0Grs)

I wouldn't stick them in a box stock plastic gun, but that is standard practice for open shooters that need to make major and drive a comp. They use a big charge of slow powder. Yes, they are over max for any published book data. Book data is conservative.

 

[ATLDave]

I see no advantage in using AC. Gas is created with any powder and it can not be controlled to be "used solely in a compensator"

Yes, but different powders create different volumes of gas. And sticking a compensator on the end of the barrel turns the usual "less gas = less recoil" dynamic on its head. Without a comp, all the gas that leaves the barrel comes straight out, and acts like a short-duration rocket pushing the barrel straight backwards, increasing recoil. With a comp, a substantial volume - a majority, even - is diverted upwards, and even slightly to the rear. That gas then pushes the gun down and even pulls it slightly forward. So more gas = less recoil with a comp.

Note, too, that these dynamics also mean that comps are less effective on 45ACP's than on, say, 38 supers. That's because the 45 runs at a lower pressure - and the jets of gas being used to push the gun down and pull it forward are less powerful jets. So the comp does less work.

The Shooting Times had a great article on this topics. http://www.shootingtimes.com/ballistics/compensators-pressure-gas/

 

[Wreck-n-Crew]

I am not a comp shooter and only have one comped 45 but I can not tell any difference

45acp has almost half the pressure of a 9mm or 40. that means a lot less pressure to really affect a compensator. I think that's a good reason for not feeling its effect.

I will add that the more powerful the round the more the effect can be noticed. but it also depends on the compensator or ported barrel.

 

[rfwobbly]

I think it is all hype about the "more gas to fill compensators" How does it do that? It just makes more gas.

It's probably lactose intolerant !!

 

[Rule3]

Yes, but different powders create different volumes of gas. And sticking a compensator on the end of the barrel turns the usual "less gas = less recoil" dynamic on its head. Without a comp, all the gas that leaves the barrel comes straight out, and acts like a short-duration rocket pushing the barrel straight backwards, increasing recoil. With a comp, a substantial volume - a majority, even - is diverted upwards, and even slightly to the rear. That gas then pushes the gun down and even pulls it slightly forward. So more gas = less recoil with a comp.

Note, too, that these dynamics also mean that comps are less effective on 45ACP's than on, say, 38 supers. That's because the 45 runs at a lower pressure - and the jets of gas being used to push the gun down and pull it forward are less powerful jets. So the comp does less work.

The Shooting Times had a great article on this topics. http://www.shootingtimes.com/ballistics/compensators-pressure-gas/

OK, good technical article. however comparing Titegroup to AA 7 or W231 to Longshot?????? Using algorithm QuickLoad???? Apples and Oranges to me.

Plug in the data for a 115 gr XTP on Hodgens website for 38 super with say a 115 or 147 gr bullet with the powders listed above. ( I do not know the preferred bullet weight for 38 Super) I see no major difference in velocity or pressure . or back to the OP original 9mm 115 gr bullet?? For the 9mm can not compare pressure as two are PSI and one is Cup. Velocity is pretty much the same.

That said it is their data and test and real time use will vary. YMMV

I do not load or shoot 38 super so I have no first hand experience.

I have old fart syndrome and am recovering from major surgery so I may not remember what I am typing here and the article is a blur right now,

 

[Walkalong]

It's like math formulas in high school or college, you don't have to understand the formula, just believe it.

I do have an old retired .38 Super that was set up for competition, and while the heavier/faster/more powder load has more recoil, the barrel stays lower in recoil and you can stay on target/get back on target faster.

 

[ATLDave]

Plug in the data for a 115 gr XTP on Hodgens website for 38 super with say a 115 or 147 gr bullet with the powders listed above. ( I do not know the preferred bullet weight for 38 Super) I see no major difference in velocity or pressure . or back to the OP original 9mm 115 gr bullet??... Velocity is pretty much the same.

OK, but that's non-responsive to the point I was making and that the article illustrates. The point is that introducing a compensator into the equation completely reverses the effects of larger volumes of gas on recoil. Sower low-density powders, like autocomp or AA7, add recoil for same-velocity loads versus faster high-density powders like 231 or Titegroup when no compenator is involved, but reduce recoil (not felt recoil, actual recoil) when an effective compensator is in the mix.

There are other reasons to prefer a faster powder (usually cheaper on a per-shot basis, easier to get to burn clean at lower pressures/velocities) or a slower powder (less chance of a missed double charge, greater linearity/safety when working at high pressures, can offer higher top-end speed if pressure range is appropriate for the powder). But that wasn't the topic of my post.

 

[Rule3]

OK, but that's non-responsive to the point I was making and that the article illustrates. The point is that introducing a compensator into the equation completely reverses the effects of larger volumes of gas on recoil. Sower low-density powders, like autocomp or AA7, add recoil for same-velocity loads versus faster high-density powders like 231 or Titegroup when no compenator is involved, but reduce recoil (not felt recoil, actual recoil) when an effective compensator is in the mix.

There are other reasons to prefer a faster powder (usually cheaper on a per-shot basis, easier to get to burn clean at lower pressures/velocities) or a slower powder (less chance of a missed double charge, greater linearity/safety when working at high pressures, can offer higher top-end speed if pressure range is appropriate for the powder). But that wasn't the topic of my post.

Yes, but now you are on a whole different topic of recoil and fast vs slow powders. So not going there.

So only Winchester Powder ( General Dynamics, St Marks Power( has the magic formula for Compensators?? If they would let me in I will drive over there.. What is the equivalent Alliant or Accurate, VV powder?? I do not own any "race guns"

It's all Gas X or Beano to me, Marketing Hype.