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Awb 2

Discussion in 'Legal' started by chas_martel, Jun 8, 2004.

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  1. chas_martel

    chas_martel Member

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    OK,

    I've been the unpopular guy, telling everyone that we will
    have AWB 2 ready to go the day AWB 1 expires.

    Here is what I think will happen.

    Remember the fight a few months ago where the Lawsuit protection
    bill was saddled down with AWB 2 stuff.

    Well, we are gonna end up with AWB 2 but no lawsuit protection for
    manufactures.

    Yep, all you nay-sayers can start bashing me, but my line of reasoning
    purely driven by the fact "we" seem to always get the short end of the stick.

    Seems like antiAmerican 's are bound to get their way. We represent
    such a small percentage of Americans the politico's will never listen to us.

    Chas,

    PS: I sure am glad I have butt loads of NIW M16 mags................
     
  2. Ktulu

    Ktulu Member

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    By your reasoning no state would ever go from no CCW or may issue to shall issue.
     
  3. Lone_Gunman

    Lone_Gunman Member

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    I will believe the AWB will sunset when I see it.

    And I don't expect it to stay gone for long.

    It will be attached to some piece of "essential" legislation next term, and Bush will sign it then, and at that point it will have no impact on his political career.

    When it happens, all the Bush people will need to kick themselves in their hiney.
     
  4. grnzbra

    grnzbra Member

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    No, kicking themselves is giving up.

    What they will need to do then is get very active in politics. In primaries, make damned sure that the candidates that are put up are pro-2A to the point that when the Democrat opponant hints at "blood in the streets", the Republican will come down on him with both feet and stomp him into a greazy little memory on the ground, unlike Schundler did in PRNJ (after a lot of work by the shooters to beat out the old guard Republican that the party wanted to run).

    As soon as the election is over in Nov, no matter who wins and no matter the status or AWB, we must start planning for '08 while still working at all the "little" elections that will come and go in the meantime! Are we up to the job? Sadly, after 35 years of this, I'm not encouraged by what I see.
     
  5. Brett Bellmore

    Brett Bellmore Member

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    If it will be coming back, it will be in the lame duck session. Maximum amount of time for us to get over it before the next election, and a President who's on record as wanting to sign it, and who, one way or the other, will never have to face the voters again. Even Kerry, in 2005, would have to think twice about signing it, but as of Nov. 3rd, Bush becomes untouchable.

    And, yes, no matter what happens, we have to organize for 2008, so that we don't get stuck again with an anti-gun Republican candidate. Pick some state governor who's pro-gun, maybe, and build up an unbeatable machine for the primaries. Few enough people vote in primaries and caucuses that we DO have the numbers to decide who wins them, if we mobilize.
     
  6. chas_martel

    chas_martel Member

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    >By your reasoning no state would ever go from no CCW or may issue to shall issue.

    I don't see CCW as a "good" step. I carried for years without a CHL. Yes,
    illegally.

    That being said, I do participate in the corruption of our system, as I am
    a Texas CHL instructor.

    I also, think we are loosing, have you noticed hthe perception of gunowners.
    It is at an all-time low.
     
  7. Thumper

    Thumper Member

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    Dude, if you think we're losing now, you weren't paying close enough attention in the early to mid '90s.

    Politically, the current trend is nirvana compared to '93-'95.
     
  8. WonderNine

    WonderNine member

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    Before we start snatching defeat from the hands of victory here, I think it's important to take a look at where we are on the issue. The anti's at this point in time don't have the political muscle to get an AWB renewal through the House and maybe not even the Senate. And the thing is that regardless of what he said in the election campaign last time around, Shrub knows that if he signed an AWB renewal that it's as good as handing the keys to the front door of the White House over to sKerry.
     
  9. Lone_Gunman

    Lone_Gunman Member

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    Not if he signs it after the election.
     
  10. Bartholomew Roberts

    Bartholomew Roberts Moderator Emeritus

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    So just out of curiousity, what is the motivation for the Republican President to sign legislation that is opposed by every gun-rights group out there? He wants to annoy that sector of grass-roots and industry lobbying groups that is currently spending 85% of all the money they raise in support of the Republican party?
     
  11. fjolnirsson

    fjolnirsson Member

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  12. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    Actually, we're the majority—but our elected misrepresentatives still refuse to listen to us.
     
  13. Foreign Devil

    Foreign Devil Member

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    Has anybody seen the latest AWB ad running on CNN portraying assault weapons as cop killers?
     
  14. N3rday

    N3rday Member

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    60,000,000 is a small percentage? That's a good 1/4 or 1/5 of the country.
     
  15. Coronach

    Coronach Moderator Emeritus

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    Actually, once the election is done the requisite 'move to the center' for both parties will be over, and the usual 'partisan politics' will become the norm. Of course, this does not mean that we couldn't be sold out in a vote-swapping deal ("I won't veto the AWB if you play nice with my budget"), but by that point the two major pressures to sign a renewal (looking 'centrist' for the election and trying to prevent blood in the streets when the existing ban expires) would be well past.

    This thing will be fought between now and November.

    Mike
     
  16. rick_reno

    rick_reno member

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    I'm pretty confident Bush will win the White House. I'm less sure about Congress remaining in Republican hands. Two recent special elections, both held in solid Republican districts (Kentucky and South Dakota) Democrats took both races. It's looking like Bush doesn't have the coattails to pull Republicans along, at the grassroot level discontent with his polices are impacting elections.
    If either the Senate or the House gets close or goes over the edge to a Democratic majority - Herr Shrub could end up with all sorts of legislation on his desk that folks here don't like and I'm positive he'll sign the majority of it. He hasn't seen a bill he didn't like yet.
     
  17. Waitone

    Waitone Member

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    Lone_Gunman has it right. AWB II will be signed by Dubya after re-election. In his second term we will see his true domestic policy leanings. Even facing re-election the guy does things that leave non-statists shaking their heads.

    I personally think the guy is a 60's classical democrat like a Sam Nunn, Scoop Jackson, or Hubert Humphrey. . . . . all dolled up in a conservative republican suit. He has repeatedly shown gun control or gun rights is a hill he will not die on. Neither is he willing to die on the free speech hill, nor the fiscal restrain hill, nor the illegal immigration hill, nor . . . . . . . just don't have the time to keep going.

    Once again the second amendment philosophy is a real good indicator or overall political philosophy.
     
  18. chas_martel

    chas_martel Member

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    Unfortunately Waitone is right on the money...........
     
  19. Foreign Devil

    Foreign Devil Member

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    If I'm not mistaken Scoop Jackson and Hubert Humphrey supported the 2nd amendment (no I don't mean hunting either). Actually I'm fairly sure Hubert Humphrey supported the right to bear arms and was quoted as saying as much.
     
  20. rick_reno

    rick_reno member

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    Wake up and smell the roses - THEY ALL SUPPORT THE 2ND AMENDMENT. It's the interpretation that gives them all the wiggle room. They'll continue to support it after the jack booted thugs knock on your door and demand your guns.
     
  21. Bartholomew Roberts

    Bartholomew Roberts Moderator Emeritus

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    I keep seeing people posit that Bush will sign a renewal in his next term and yet I see no actual evidence or arguments from these people supporting that theory.

    Can anyone of the three people expressing support for this idea offer some shred of evidence to support it?

    As much as some might consider gun ownership a pessimistic act in and of itself; there are people here who would consider it an ominous omen if the sun rose in the morning.
     
  22. Waitone

    Waitone Member

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    Bush is president because his oppostion po'd the gun rights groups. None other than former president Clinton said gun rights groups put Bush in the office.

    Two, Bush has demonstrated no love for or even recognition of the supremacy of the constitution in the crafting of legislation.

    Three, Bush repeatedly told congress what he wanted in a campaign finance reform bill. He wrote a letter giving them 7 specific provisions the legislation would have to contain to merit his signature. Congress gave him Campaign Finance Control legislation which contained not one, I repeat, not one of the provisions he demanded. He signed the legislation with the expectation the supreme court would strike down unconstitutional law. He and every other idiot in the legislature was surprised by SCOTUS' response. He is now being hung with the rope which he refused cut up. No sympathy here.

    Four, Bush dogged through congress a Medicare drug bill. Insteading of demanding congress give him something that deals with a problem he let congress send him a christmas tree of outrageous cost. Never mind the constitutional issues since he ain't worried.

    Conclusion--there is plenty of reason to think Bush will sign AWB II after his re-election.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again. Apart from the war on islamofascist terrormongers we are looking at the weakest president in my lifetime. The man has no discernable beliefs for which he is willing to stand. The issue is the accumulation of power. . . . .pure and simple.
     
  23. Lone_Gunman

    Lone_Gunman Member

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    Waitone, I think we are seeing eye to eye on Bush, and I agree with you totally.

    He has signed legislation that he said he thought was probably unconstitutional (campaign finance reform). How he can do that is beyond me. If he thought it was unconstitutional, then how can he sign it? Good God, he took an oath to defend the Constitution, and then does this?

    That issue alone is enough to scare the heck out of me when it comes to Bush. It tells me where his concern is, and it is not with the Constitution.

    Don't even get me started about the Medicare Reform Bill.

    We are in bad shape when a Republican starts making the "Great Society" Democrats of the 60's look conservative. No president since LBJ has been able to accomplish so much liberal agenda as Bush.

    Yet the conservatives cling to the "lesser of two evils" argument like grim death. That argument got us into the mess we are in now, and certainly won't get us out.

    I don't have much problem with anything he has done in terms of foreign affairs. I think getting Saddam out of Iraq was a good, weapons of mass destruction be damned. His domestic policies though are just plain horrible.
     
  24. Bartholomew Roberts

    Bartholomew Roberts Moderator Emeritus

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    Waitone, you are essentially saying that if the legislation gets to his desk he'll sign it - which is pretty much what President Bush has said on the issue.

    For all that though, it hasn't ever made it to his desk, What makes you think something is going to change that after the election?

    1) Four of the Senators who voted against us in March are retiring from pro-gun southern states. Several other Senators who voted against us are in tight races for reelection. Four more pro-gun Senators changes the March vote from 52-47 to 48-51.

    2) The implication to your statements is that Bush kowtows to the left to try and gain their votes. What happens when he doesn't need their votes anymore (he can't be elected and Cheney isn't likely to run on his coattails)? You propose that he will continue to do the same thing; but why would he?
     
  25. Ktulu

    Ktulu Member

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    Chas, I understand but for now I'll take a permited right over a denied one.
     
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