AZ Home Ammo Explodes

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No chance of the ones in a magazine lasting as long as the one in the chamber.

Now all the ammo in a revolver cylinder is a different story!
In that case you would have a run-away gun firing several shots.

rc
 
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Maybe we can all agree......

that throwing live ammo into a fire and standing around it (the fire) is probably not a good idea?
 
Now all the ammo in a revolver cylinder is a different story!
In that case you would have a run-away gun firing several shots.

IMO, only the one under the hammer would fire. The rounds in the cylinder would go just like loose rounds: primer cooks off, case splits, etc. They aren't sealed in at the back--plenty of room for case to rupture.

No?
 
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IMO, only the one under the hammer would fire. The rounds in the cylinder would go just like loose rounds: primer cooks off, case splits, etc. They aren't sealed in at the back--plenty of room for case to rupture.

No?
No. There have been tests firing revolvers with the barrel removed. They don't shoot accurately, but they do shoot. So rounds that cooked off in the cylinder would definitely be dangerous.
 
There have been tests firing revolvers with the barrel removed. They don't shoot accurately, but they do shoot. So rounds that cooked off in the cylinder would definitely be dangerous.

In these tests, were the rounds set off by the hammer? I'm asking because I'm thinking that then they would be locked up in the cylinder. Cartridges elsewhere in the cylinder wouldn't be locked up. Wouldn't the cases rupture and vent backwards when the primers cooked off?

DISCLAIMER: I'm just thinking out loud here. I'm definitely no expert!
 
No, they wouldn't.

Most all revolvers have the same head-space clearance for at least a part of the recoil shield all the around the cylinder. On a S&W for instance, there is a cut on the left side about rim thickness where the cylinder pin swings out. The rest of the recoil shield holds the rounds in just about the same place as when they are being fired.

But all of the cartridges would be stopped before backing out far enough to blow out the case wall.

Looking at a six shot revovler, 5 of the 6 are open in the front and would fire bullets normally.
Only the bottom chamber would be aligned with the frame, and that bullet would have trouble getting out. But something would have to give anyway, and the very hot cylinder might just blow out.

rc
 
it was believed the family and pets had left Saturday morning, possibly on a vacation.

Phoenix is a very progressive firefighting community. They are vocal in regards to fighting defensively when it is known that there is no life danger. My dept is heading that direction, but.... we will still go in if there is a question as to the location of the occupants. The first 5 minutes of a fire are intensely chaotic and oftentimes there is no way to confirm with absolute certainty as to where the occupants are. Therefore, dictating offensive tactics to confirm the absence.

Not trying to contradict divemedic by any means, but a freeburning fire is oftentimes the easiest fire to fight as the smoke conditions are less and you can visualize the seat of the fire. The smoke is what kills and makes our jobs exponentially more difficult. I would rather go in a house where the fire has vented through a window, (vented through a roof makes it a tougher decision) than one where the house is "charged" with smoke and heat.

In terms of the OP's question in terms of storage, I am a big fan of old deep freezers. Throw a pad lock on it and you are good to go. Sadly, I have first hand experience as my house burned to the foundation and the stand up freezer survived it, albeit in less than optimal condition.

Being inside a room, or worse yet in a basement, with exploding ammunition would be incredibly disconcerting. In a rocking fire, your senses are balanced on a razors edge at times and the introduction of ammo cooking off and being hit by shrapnel, (however safe it may be) would topple most firefighter's psyche that I have had the priviledge of working with. That toppling of mental control could lead to the loss of lives.

I guess that puts me on the side of the Phoenix Chief who was on scene, huh?
 
Does anyone actually have access to that "test" about the revolver's discharge velocity? I'd be curious at what is possible when there is absolutely zero barrel, just the cylinder. Much of the velocity imparted is while the gas forms behind the bullet, in the barrel. There would only be as much pressure as causes the bullet to move, venting the gas into the atmosphere of the rounds not firing into the barrel.

As for the freestanding fire, the rate of combustion is highest in the free-standing fire, and it's moving the fastest. Having vented through the roof, it will pull the smoke out, but the heat is up, and the structure has suffered weakening of the walls and roof.

There is a difference between a free-burning fire, and a fire that has been ventilated. Normally, the free-burning structure has sustained more massive damage. Arriving early, and ventilating the structure, normally allows the smoke and heat to be reduced, allowing for better visibility, with the attendant ease of extinguishing that makes for. This prevents the damage associated with the fire venting itself.

Our first due, in Maryland, had literally hundreds of triple address Garden Style Apartments. None were sprinkled, and the addition of cable lines, DSL lines, and so on, had Swiss-cheesed the fire stops. General SOP was that arrival with a burning roof allowed for 5 minutes to bring the fire under control. After that, you pulled back to defensive operations. Far enough back that a wall collapse didn't catch you or your men.
 
I remember an episode of CSI where there was a box of bullets in the trunk of a car that caught on fire. They showed the bullets cooking off and shooting holes through the trunk lid. :rolleyes:

Something similar happened in the very stupid movie Shoot 'Em Up.

The media will continue to sell these lies as long as they think that people will believe it. Portrayals of how computers work have gotten much more accurate over the years as more and more people have become familiar with them. Maybe we can help by taking everyone to the range.
 
Hmmm.... seems we are suffering from a combination of an overwhelming faith in the intelligence of humans and a misunderstanding about how an oven works. Very unusual for THR. So here are some articles to amuse you with:

Mythbusters. Video proof of what I am saying.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BX1kvJVrjc

And here are some stupid people for those of you with a belief that no one would be so stupid.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2008/12/22/sig-oven-bad-idea/

There photos are of a Sig Sauer Pro that was left in an electric oven at 210°c / 400°f for 20 minutes by a French police officer. After cleaning it he put it in to dry but was distracted by a phone call.

http://www.gunpolicy.org/Articles/2004/290304.html

Texas Woman Shot When Gun Left in Oven
Reuters
29 Mar 2004

SAN ANTONIO -- A Texas woman heating fish sticks was shot in the leg by a gun that had been stashed in her oven, police said. Roxanne Perez, 29, was taken to a local hospital where she was in good condition, police said Friday. They said a friend of hers had hidden the .357 caliber handgun in the stove two weeks earlier without telling her after she told him no guns were allowed in her house. When Perez heated up the fish sticks she also heated up the gun, which caused several rounds to be fired. One hit her in the leg. No charges have been filed because the shooting was accidental, police said. ( gunpolicy.org )

About once a year I say.
 
Vern, shooting a barrel-removed revolver will still add the length of the frame to the ability to gain velocity. The old Mormon Avenger was such a gun.

What I was referring to was the velocity of those adjoining bore holes that was mentioned above. They have zero constriction, unless you count hitting the edges of the frame in some revolver/caliber combinations.

I think that the general science involved would prove that the ONLY round that could achieve a meaningful velocity was the one firing through the barrel.
 
Vern, shooting a barrel-removed revolver will still add the length of the frame to the ability to gain velocity. The old Mormon Avenger was such a gun.
No, on both counts.

Removing the barrel (on modern revolves) requires unscrewing it. The resulting hole is far too large obturate and give any added velocity.

The Morman guns were short-barreled, not no-barreled. Most that I have seen or read about were cut-down Colts Take a look at a Colt percussion revolver and you see you cannot remove the barrel entirely -- it is integral with the fore part of the frame.
 
Geez. Am I the only man in America with a copy of Julian Hatcher's Notebook? ;)

Seriously. Go buy a copy today, and read it tomorrow.
 
I think that the general science involved would prove that the ONLY round that could achieve a meaningful velocity was the one firing through the barrel.
Most normal revolver ammo (.38 Spl or such) burns all the powder in the cylinder of the gun. What pressure escapes through the barrel cylinder gap is only high pressure gas.

BTW: It was known for old-time gamblers and others to take the barrel & ejector rod housing off of a Colt Lightening or SAA to make a belly or hide-out gun.

Generally the base of a lead bullet will be flaired out slightly from the blast out of the cylinder.

By all accounts, they would kill you just as dead as one with a barrel on it.

rc
 
Divemedic and Flying Gauge hit the nail on the head...

I have been in fires that ammo has cooked off in, I have been in fires where aerosol cans, propane tanks, and CO2 cartridges have cooked off in. I was in one fire that had hundreds of bottles of wine with the corks flying off.

When you fight fire, A LOT of things go boom. That doesn't stop us from doing our jobs though.

As others have said, the fire was already vented. Very few firefighters in their right mind would make an offensive, interior attack in a fire like that. There is no need to.
 
Fine. I invite everyone to stand in front of a box of 357's that gets thrown in a campfire. No takers?

Sure.

Pay for my airfare to KY and back.
Rental car.
Lodging and meals for one day.


No protective equipment needed...

Tee shirt and shorts is fine with me.

-and-

Safety glasses.
 
Not to go too far off topic, but:

Not trying to contradict divemedic by any means, but a freeburning fire is oftentimes the easiest fire to fight as the smoke conditions are less and you can visualize the seat of the fire. The smoke is what kills and makes our jobs exponentially more difficult. I would rather go in a house where the fire has vented through a window, (vented through a roof makes it a tougher decision) than one where the house is "charged" with smoke and heat.

A fire which has been ventilated by a fire crew is a different animal than one which has self ventilated. A building vented by a crew has been vented in a controlled fashion, and that ventilation has been (hopefully) coordinated with the attack. Failure to ventilate properly can be very dangerous.

The wood frame trusses that are used in the majority of homes are normally very sturdy, but when exposed to fire conditions, are a recipe for firefighter injury. Truss members exposed to direct flame impingement fail in as little as five minutes. In order to self ventilate, the load bearing members would have to have been exposed to flame for a few minutes, at least. This is a dangerous situation. As Brannigan said: "Know thine enemy. The building is the enemy."

A good read on the hazards is "Building Construction for the Fire Service" by Brannigan, and "Fireground Strategies" by Avillo.

A fire that is self vented is at high risk of a collapse with little or no further warning. IMO, this is a much larger factor in the decision to go defensive, but that doesn't sell TV time like the threat of an explosion.
 
Divemedic I wholeheartedly agree with your views. As I stated, my dept is not at this point as of yet. Probably has more to do with geography than anything. In our response area, the houses range anywhere from 100-150 years old. It is not uncommon to see dimensional lumber and cut nails. That dimensional lumber is usually old growth pine or some other soft wood.

As an aside, I tried framing out a window with old growth pine, and it laughed at my paslode framing nailer; leaving me to use good old arm strength. That sucked.

Whether a fire has "self vented" versus ventilation as performed in a coordinated attack is somewhat immaterial. There are too many factors at play to make that blanket statement. Fire venting out a window from a room and contents fire is still within the realm of an offensive attack. Now if it is venting from multiple windows in multiple rooms, in a modern home with stamped plate construction, that is a different story.

I am sure we are thinking along the same lines here. Hopefully I have clarified it a tad.

It is amazing what building materials can withstand when properly used. It is also can be very sad what can happen when cost is factored too greatly, (stamped plate truss).

I do think that this is a purely academic discussion in regards to bullets exploding. I would liken it to practicing for a shootout vs. being in one. I am a pretty calm guy and actually enjoy fighting a good fire, but bullets popping off would make my exit from the building a foregone conclusion. All it would take is for one piece of shrapnel to cut my high pressure line or low pressure line on my SCBA to potentially make me a statistic.
 
The Morman guns were short-barreled, not no-barreled. Most that I have seen or read about were cut-down Colts Take a look at a Colt percussion revolver and you see you cannot remove the barrel entirely -- it is integral with the fore part of the frame.

I have seen, and read of, the originals. They werecut off at the frame, with zero stub beyond that.

While powder might burn 100% in theory while in the casing, that's not the reality. If it were, there would be no flash at the gap, or out of the barrel, or "unburned" particles on your clothing and hands. However, burning powder and velocity are two separate animals. If it weren't there would be no velocity difference between barrel lengths.
 
I have seen, and read of, the originals. They werecut off at the frame, with zero stub beyond that.
Not the ones I've seen -- and I've seen a couple of Browning originals. They all had short barrels, but they have short barrels.

Remember, Colt percussion revolvers don't have a frame, per se. There is no top strap, and the front of what would be the frame is a lug forged integral with the barrel. You can shorten the barrel, but you can't remove all of it, or the cylinder will fall out of the gun.
 
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