back ground check for private sales

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answerguy

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Would anyone here like the ability to do a background check before selling a gun to a person you don't know?

I know the main arguement against it would be if there were a law allowing it, then there would probably be a law requiring it a short time later.

But wouldn't it be nice to able to verify that the person you are selling the gun to isn't a felon?
 
No. I don't need to know the background of anyone to whom I sell a car or a house or a set of tools. A firearm is just another tool. As for liabilities, I'll take my chances.
 
Basically I require the following.....

Valid drivers license in the state of sale showing that that person is legally of age to purchase a firearm and is a resident of that state and didn't cross state lines.

I also have a standard contract that basically needs to be signed by both the seller and the buyer, who both get copies that reads that neither is a fellon and both can legally transer and receive a firearm and that the receiver isn't going to go knock over a 7-11 after purchasing etc.....pretty much the same contract I use for other stuff as well. You know I am not liable if you shoot yourself or somebody else, no warrantees express or implied, same stuff for a car really. I am not liable if you run over a bus load of nuns etc.

Chris
 
But wouldn't it be nice to able to verify that the person you are selling the gun to isn't a felon?
Yes it would. I guess I have a different opinion from many on this board. I certainly don't think it should be the law, but as a matter of personal responsibility I only sell handguns to people I know or those holding concealed carry licenses. I would in fact feel partially responsible if I sold a gun to a felon who then used it to commit a crime. It is also my understanding that it is in fact a violation of the law to sell a handgun to someone from out of state without going through a FFL.
 
Baaaaaaa... Baaaaaaaa.

Sorry folks, but with painfully rare exceptions, you guys are sounding like that's your native tongue.

What's happened to all the tough talk about keeping the government out of your personal business? Isn't the sale of personal property ALSO personal business? Can anyone point out the part of the Second Amendment that says people who have been convicted of a crime, gone to prison and been released are precluded from owning guns? While I can see why we might not allow those currently in prison to possess guns, what part of the Constitution gives government the power to deny anyone the means and tools for self-protection?

I rarely ever sell a gun, but when I do, I do it the old-fashioned way-- with a handshake and cold cash. That's the way I'd sell a generator or a refrigerator or any other piece of my personal property and that's the same way I buy.

Some of you guys need to check the water temperature.
 
Ok tough guy-

- do you have the balls to do what you say? I assume you CCW without a permit, are you willing to tell the next cop who pulls you over about it? Why not?

Let me add that the constitution doesn't say I don't have the right to decide who I sell the gun to. And since felony convictions should be public record why not let me see them?
 
Not an issue in CA because ALL firearm sales...new, used, private party, pawn shop etal...require background check & 10 waiting period.
 
Answerguy:
If a cop_should pull me over, it would probably be for driving in a way that he thought was unsafe or illegal. I ouldn't bother to tell him I was carrying for the same reason I wouldn't tell the driver of the next car stopped at the light--- IT ISN'T ANY OF HIS BUSINESS!!!

Now, if the cop were to take issue with me because I just happened to shoot that driver of the next car--- well, then my gun might be relevant to the discussion.

And, yes you do have the right to do business with whomever you wish, basing your decision on whatever information you want. The fact that you feel you need to protect your butt from an over-intrusive government is a symptom of a much larger problem. If you feel (and you have every right to do so) that once a_person has stepped beyond the limit of the law he (or she, we must be PC here) will never again be trustworthy enough to be allowed to defend himself with a gun, then I submit you have been thoroughly and probably irreversibly indoctrinated by twelve or more years of Gov-Speak administered by Big Brother's public schools.

Now then, this isn't meant to be a flame. You're nowhere near alone in your views. Actually, I'm probably the one holding an outside view of the issue. My words are meant more as a commentary on how our views have changed over the years due to the incessant publicity about the evil of guns and gun ownership. I AM an oldfart, and I remember days when I could buy a gun at a general store without paperwork; When I rode my bike to that same store and bought twelve sticks of dynamite for my neighbor to blow some stumps with; When a distant relative got out of prison and wasn't forced to register with the local police or report his every move.

Whether we like it or not and regardless of whatever excuses we might use to justify our actions, we are gradually being boiled. The water may only be moderately warm now, but next year? Or the next?
 
While I am horrified by California and the hoops they make you jump through, I tend to enjoy knowing that whoever I sell to has been checked out. While I'm smart enough to realize that background checks are laughable at best, the fact that a person is willing to subject themselves to it tells me they have no major skeletons. I've pretty much quit selling guns and just buy as many as I can, but I do think it's a pretty good idea to cover your butt and have a dealer do the transfers.
 
I look at it this way...............right now I have a 3/4 quarter horse 1/4 Welsh crossbreed horse to sell 6 years old. the first $650 CASH takes him home. To who I don't care.....figure it from there! If he looks over 21 thats good enough for me. By the way Louisiana had no laws concerning private sales.
 
well since i dont anticipate ever selling any of my guns, its not really an issue to me. however, i myself wouldnt sell a firearm to someone i didnt know. that way, i can always track that guy down to see if he'll let me buy it back.

and i'd also like to have a paper trail of some sort, a simple bill of sale would suffice for my records and his. say for example you sell a gun to someone else and theres no trail, a crime is commited with the firearm you sold, and the gun goes back to the 4473 and is linked to you. at the very least you should expect some headaches if there is no evidence that you sold the firearm in the first place.
its called Cover Your Posterior.
 
If someone wants to do a background check before selling someone a gun that's fine. It's their gun and their sale.

I have a problem with the gov. mandating a background check.

It's no different than smoking bans in restaurants. I can comment on this topic with authority since I now own one.

If I wanted to serve the smoking only public, I'd be out of luck. That should be my choice and the owner, not big brother's. Same goes for the sale of a gun, or any other personal property.

P.S. If you come into my restaurant you can pack heat. Of course I don't think you will have to much trouble from the patrons of a tea room.
 
Thanks for the vote of confidence, MitchSchaft. Would you mind relaying those remarks to my wife?

To revisit an issue: Back in '99, when I was a mere 65 yrs old, my wife was working one night and our daughter was gone somewhere else. I decided to go down to the local park to watch a baseball game. The game finally finished well after dark and I pushed my bike towards the street to head home.
All of a sudden, I was jerked into a patch of bushes and three young Hispanic Gentlemen proceeded to kick the livin' dog***** out of me. I was completely defensive, rolling into a ball and trying to protect myself as much as possible while screaming at the top of my lungs. One of the fine young fellows kept trying to grab me by the hair to pull my head up, but I was able to resist that.
After what seemed like several days, some of the ballplayers came running over with their bats, chasing my new acquaintances away. Someone brought a flashlight and we found my glasses, still intact, and one more little surprise-- an open knife! At least one of those guys wanted to cut my throat!
After that, I chose to stay home a lot, unconsciously choosing safety rather than freedom. But about a year later,_I bought a .380 pistol and began carrying it everywhere I went. As you may have figured out, I didn't bother the 'authorities' with all the paperwork they would have had to fill out to "grant"_me permission to carry concealed.
I don't know if I ever ran into those guys again or not. If I had, I wouldn't have been able to recognise them since about all I had seen of them originally was their shoes. But I started going out again.
Eventually though, my shirt rode up at the wrong time and one day, as I stood by my car waiting for my wife, I suddenly had three burly men dressed in blue pointing guns at me. They arrested me for carrying without a permit and eventually (9 hours later) released me.
When everything finally came to court, it was duly pointed out that my gun wasn't concealed-- they could see it-- and Oregon specifically states that a gun worn openly on the belt shall never be considered 'concealed'. But the City of Portland has a rule against carrying a loaded gun in public unless you're going to or coming from a shooting range. They got me on that one.
The judge asked my why I felt I needed to carry a gun, so I told him about my little frolic in the park. He listened and then sentenced me to a two-hour gun safety course and probation that would end when I had completed the safety course. Just as the judge was signing the papers, he asked me if I was going to go back to carrying a gun again. I looked him straight in the eye and told him simply that the police had kept my gun. He paused, looked down and said, "Yes."
I now have a court order in my possession stating that I AM allowed to possess firearms. So sometimes things do work out.
 
Southla1 -

Is your state one of the ones that has made it a crime to sell a horse to someone who intends to export the meat for human consumption? (It is typically sent to France, England and Belgium if anybody cares.)

You better be careful :) :) :)

John
 
I'm with Oldfart and Southla1.

Running a nics on a private sale only adds the parties to the government computers. Why on earth would you VOLUNTEER to do that?

Should be up to the seller, but since we haven't killed all the lawyers, yet, as some ancient Roman advised --

(don't get excited -- I'm just kidding -- what I'd really do is stop them from advertising and make 50% --make that 75% of their schooling be about the history of freedom and liberty and I'd make them memorize the constitution forwards AND backwards and then in German, french, Italian and Hebrew),


-- check the buyers drivers license to be sure they're over 21 and not out of state -- not because either criteria helps at all, but just to CYA.



By the way, Oldfart, what say we go into business, you and I?

People buy what they're familiar with, right? So let's sell 'em bottled water -- just past luke warm. We'll outsell Cocola!


Confuscious say that sheep are for shearing. Until you eat 'em, what the h-ll else you gonna do with 'em?


Matis
 
While I can see why we might not allow those currently in prison to possess guns, what part of the Constitution gives government the power to deny anyone the means and tools for self-protection?
Well, if you're going to be perfectly consistent in your views, this should not be an allowable exception, either. After all, prisoners have a right to free speech and freedom of religion. Where in the Constitution does the govt. have the right to deny RKBA to prisoners?

BTW, oldfart, your ramblings don't impress me. I never said I think the govt. should be involved in a private sale. I only said that I, as a matter of personal responsibility, do my best to make sure I am not aiding and assisting a criminal by personally checking on a potential buyer. If you choose not to exercise that precaution, that is entirely up to you.
 
Spacemanspiff:
You certainly have a valid point regarding a possible future crime with a gun you sell. I could be traced to you via the 4473 and you'd have to do some tall explaining.
But what if you'd never filled out the form? What if you hadn't bought that gun from a dealer? No 4473-- no trail-- no problem.
I've never bought a gun from a dealer since about 1970 (more or less). I don't have anything against them, but I'm sorry, I can't support them this way. I buy accessories from them. I buy ammo from them. But I won't buy guns from them unless the gun is pre-1898.
Now, I admit, I don't own the latest ultra-whammy boom-boom out of Ruger or Remington or whomever, but my old '93 Mauser will do in an elk just as well the latest brain-fart out of Winchester. As a matter of fact, the latest brain-fart out of Winchester IS a '93 Mauser. It's just polished better.
Sorry for all the words, but I've watched to damned much of this country go down the "politically correct" drain or the "for our own good" hole or "for the children" pit. The government may get a piece of my a$$ for something they think I'm doing wrong but they won't get my cherry and they damned sure won't get my pride.
 
If you really want to check out someone's background, can't you just do it through an FFL with the current system? You'll have to pay for it, but are you thinking that government involvement will somehow make it cheaper? If you really want to CYA, hire a Lawyer or a Private Eye, but don't make the rest of us pay for it with our tax money.

If I buy or sell a gee-tar, automobile, boat, or anything over $300 or so, I would expect each of us to sign a receipt and write down some sort of ID number to CYA in case it's reported stolen or if it's a stolen item. Same for guns.

Or...just never sell any of your guns.

As Jeff Cooper says: "A moral man may give away his treasures, but probably he should not sell them...The Queen is not for sale."
 
Rock Jock

Nothing at all personal,

but I AM impressed with Oldfarts "ramblings".

And while we're on ramblings, the oldest, most time-tested and and best way to teach wisdom is through stories, just plain stories -- and not just for children.

The listener is entertained, wants to hear the ending, and the wisdom goes right in -- no resistance -- and takes residence in the listener's psyche.

That's how it was done in pre-literate times, that's how it's still done -- every culture has this tradition.


(One thing, though, Oldfart -- at 69 you STILL have your cherry?)

Matis
 
I would use my own senses to decied weather or not to sell a gun to someone. The same as I would with anything else.
 
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