Bad day at the gun store (long)

[stv]

“Don’t you meddle with old unloaded firearms. They are the most deadly and unerring things that have ever been created by man. You don’t have to take any pains at all with them. You don’t have to have a rest. You don’t have to have any sights on the gun. You don’t have to aim, even. No, you just pick out a relative and bang away, and you are sure to get him. A youth who can’t hit a cathedral at thirty yards with a Gatling gun in three-quarters of an hour can take up an old empty musket and bag his grandmother every time at a hundred.”

—Mark Twain “Advice to Youth” speech, 1882

 

[CleverName]

Possible response to "It's not loaded."

"I couldn't tell that from where I am and I don't feel like giving the benefit of the doubt to anybody."

 

[Ala Dan]

"All guns are loaded, all the time"

Seems like this guy forgot the cardinal rule~

 

[cracked butt]

WOw! my 2 1/2 year old is smarter than the combined intelligence of that father-son duo.

I bought a toy rifle for my son 2 weeks ago from a Gander Mountain, because he wanted to "shoot stuff just like daddy." The four rules are a little much for a 2 year old, so I gave him one to folow to start with "don't ever point the rifle at people" the other rule is that it has to be put away when he is not using it- leaned up against a corner in his bedroom. So far he has been 100% in compliance with my rules and asks me every day to take him in the backyard to pretend to hunt birds. The other day I had to make a concession when he asked me if it was ok to shoot Barney

 

[Waffen]

A quote that has served me well in situations where I have been muzzle swept is:

"It's amazing how many accidental shootings have occurred with unloaded weapons"

I agree with what you did 100%. Hindsight is 20/20 I understand, and in the heat of the moment you don't have the luxury of playing Monday morning quarter back, but I think the best course of action would be to take the dad aside and let loose a verbal bitch slap. Parents most of all should realize the value of life, and what it would mean to someone else to loose their child because of his nonchalant attitude in safety.

Children are fragile and can easily take on the "beaten puppy" syndrome. If the offender was a child, I would defiantly have corrected them quickly and firmly, but offer constructive criticism, and offer a way for them to learn the proper way. It would be a shame to turn away a future responsible shooter/hunter/gun owner because of a childish mistake you had to turn into a an "expirence" they will never forget.

I am sure that everyone here has expirenced a "range officer" or "that guy" at the range who was more than a little more than overzealous in their teachings. Do you're best not to be any one of the above mentioned to a future shooter.

 

[ralphie98]

One thing I like about Gander Mountain, at least the one I frequent, is that they have a bunch of mounted animals up high on the walls. These are perfect when you feel like safely pointing at something.

I don't think it would be a bad idea to have the "4 rules" posted in multiple locations. If some tool still doesn't get the message, at least you can point to a sign and end the conversation

 

[Waffen]

After thinking about this more I opted for the comedy option of hiring a "gun shop linebacker" akin to "Terry Tate - Office Linebacker" to absolutely lay bone-crushing hits to anyone breaking the rules. I can only imagine a massive crush put down by terry followed by "DON'T CHAMBER THE ROUND IF YOU CAN'T CHAMBER THE PAIN WHOOOOOOOO".

Hilarity would ensue as they day went on. It would almost be a spectator sport.


Terry tate video's (Must see if you have not) below.
http://www.milkandcookies.com/keywords/terrytate/

 

[Aguila Blanca]

I did not want to be the person to lecture the guy in front of his kids, nor did I feel that it was my responsibility to teach his children about gun safety.

He pointed the rifle at you. Who better to lecture him about firearm safety? Too bad if it was in front of his kids. If he doesn't want to get lectured in front of his kids, he shouldn't do stupid/dangerouis things when his kids are with him.

 

[peacefuljeffrey]

If someone did that in MY [imaginary, but one can dream] gunstore...

they'd be out the door REAL fast, and i'd give them a sheet of gun safety rules...

Hear hear!

And I like what you said about a sheet of gun safety rules.

I think that would be a GREAT policy for gun shop owners to adopt. In fact, I think that a great policy would be any time a customer approaches the counter about a gun purchase, and it is not someone known to the clerk, a sheet or placard with the four major gun safety rules should be handed to them, and they should be instructed to read it. Customers dismissive of it would be barred from handling any weapons whatsoever. Don't like it? Too f'in bad. Not having someone shot in my store is worth your indignity, buster. So sorry about your ego.

But above all else, anyone who has to be corrected or reprimanded for breaking a major safety rule (finger on trigger, muzzle covering a person, etc.) should be given a sheet of the rules, with the particular rule they broke highlighted in bright yellow for them so they know.

-Jeffrey

 

[DigMe]

People who work in real gun shops pay attention to both the guns and the customers.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!.....

Whoo...

That's good. Have you not seen the dozens,perhaps hundreds, of posts here detailing how gun shop workers were NOT paying attention to the gun or the customer or both?! I've seen it many times myself! Maybe you should have said "good gun shops."

brad cook

 

[DarkKnight01]

I would've drew my weapon, found the nearest useable cover and ordered them to put the weapon down NOW!! (seriously) pointing a weapon at someone is no joke... if they had done it to the wrong person there may not be any such verbal commands.... just shooting.... I didnt clear that weapon, they probably didnt clear that weapon.... and the idiots working there likely didnt clear it... so who really knew if it was loaded or not?

I must confess to say that the gun-shop I do most of my shopping at, is a great shop, great fella behind the counter, but for some reason, he doesnt clear a weapon when he hands it to you, this makes me a little uneasy.... I immediatly take it eject the magazine, and rack the slide, or open the cylinder depending on the weapon.... (pointed in a safe direction of course) and then place the magazine back into the weapon/close cylinder, and only then do I begin my up close inspection...... Guess you cant have it all at your fav shops.....

 

[entropy]

I would've drew my weapon, found the nearest useable cover and ordered them to put the weapon down NOW!! (seriously)

And if you are LEO, your IA would like a word with you. If you are CCW, revocation would probably be the result. And if your are carrying illegally, well, you might as well go ahead and fire, cuz' you are in deep.

Universal did just fine in the situation. We have had a few people bring guns in for repair with rounds chambered. The guys at the counter do check religiously, thank goodness. When I get 'em, they are often in pieces already. The closest I usually get to that is muzzleloaders that failed to fire because the owner forgot to fire off a few caps before loading.

 

[DarkKnight01]

And if you are LEO, your IA would like a word with you. If you are CCW, revocation would probably be the result. And if your are carrying illegally, well, you might as well go ahead and fire, cuz' you are in deep.

Hmm Really? thats interesting.... But I beg to differ.

Ability to use lethal force: Check, Having a bead on you from a long gun would certainly grant the ability to be lethal.

Reasonable fear for life: Check

I dont care if the person pointing a weapon at me is 8 or 80, They are a deadly threat however you slice it.

I never said anything about using my weapon until I had to, I highly doubt any court judge or jury would see a problem with drawing a weapon and having it at the ready when someones holding a bead on you... In most places you would be justified in shooting.

People need to use their heads for something other than a hat rack, and parents need to teach safe gun handling before letting their child pick up a gun in a store.... and start drawing beads on people.

 

[pawncop]

Universal - No way were you out of line. That dad was not teaching rule number 1 and 2 of safety Treat all guns as loaded and do not point a gun at anything w=you do not wish to destroy.

Cracked butt - Let him take out Barney!

 

[MudPuppy]

I think Ralphie has stated an EXCELLENT suggestion--those rules ought to be out everywhere weapons are sold. Likely wouldn't have made a difference with this particular tool, but i love the idea. I'm going to print 'em out and put them on the gun safe.

 

[entropy]

Darkknight 01, you must be a hoot at gun shows!

 

[DarkKnight01]

I rarely go to gun shows in the first place......

 

[Universal]

Interesting follow up.

Yesterday I went to a gun store where I felt pretty comfortable that no one would point any weapons at me. It turns out that one of the people working there remembered me from a shoot at a range in a nearby city. Anyway, we chatted a bit and I told him about what had taken place and he told me that he was not surprised. I told me that company that owns the store I was violated in, has a second store in another city where the gun displays are right next to a huge window overlooking a parking lot. The store has posted a sign there asking customers to not point guns at people in the parking lot due to the high number of incidents of people doing just that. After everything you people here have shared I can't say that I am surprised but it really does worry me.

Anyway, thank you all for your input and reassurance that I did not overreact. My trip to the store yetesterday was a much productive trip and I am now the happy owner of a Smith & Wesson model 640 in .38 special. Just what I wanted and I got it for $280 out the door and into my pocket. I also picked up two boxes of fifty of ammo for $6.96 each. Can't beat that.

 

[DarkKnight01]

280$ for a 640, sounds like a good deal to me any pics of her? and we expect a range report when you get around to it

 

[Universal]

No picture but I will gladly share my impressions of the weapon once I get a chance to shoot it. I think my first chance will be later this month when I will take it to the state law enforcement qualification course. That should give me a pretty good idea where I stand with this one.

 

[svtruth]

Pointing a gun

A couple of halloweens ago, at a large party in Menhattan, a PO was called for some reason. While he was there, a guest, dressed as a PO, in another room, through a glass door, drew his replica gun and pointed it at the real officer. He did not survive. The officer was exonerated.

 

[M99M12]

SW from CO speaketh the truth, agin.

 

[Tory]

Sure about that?

"A couple of halloweens [sic] ago, at a large party in Menhattan [sic], a PO was called for some reason. While he was there, a guest, dressed as a PO, in another room, through a glass door, drew his replica gun and pointed it at the real officer. He did not survive. The officer was exonerated."

I believe that was on the LEFT Coast, in Lala Land or its immediate environs.

 

[stevesmith7]

Maybe it was just my dad but when I grew up part of "Treat all guns as loaded" included checking any gun handed to you to see if it is loaded. I can remember watching him reassemble something from pieces and have it handed to me only to get a lecture if I didn't check to see if it was loaded. There were no exceptions.

Steve

 

[NHBB]

what if it was that fellow that was mentioned in a thread about idiots with guns who "instinctively dropped to the floor and drew his 1911" after someone in a family, some wife and some kids accidentally swept him that'd be a sight.