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Bad day at the range

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by travisd, Jan 29, 2013.

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  1. travisd

    travisd Member

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    Picked up some 30-06 dies last weekend and got a box of ammo loaded this week. Went to the range this morning and wasn't real impressed with what I got. I used IMR 4350 powder, Hornady 165gr interlocks, and once fired Fed brass with CCI primers. Loaded 5 each of 56.5, 57, 57.5 and 58 grains of powder. Seated the bullets to the cannelure. Had 2 rounds that failed to fire and I want impressed with the grouping on the rest. Went like this:

    56.5 gr - Last round failed to fire, would not fire on second try, grouping wasn't terrible except for one flier. 3 in the center and 1 low.
    58gr - Not real bad, 3 in the middle, 1 high, and the wind blew my target over on the last shot.
    57gr - Shots would alternate between 2 different groups. Would be very happy with the load if they were all in one.
    57.5gr - First round failed to fire, went off on the second try. Same as before, two different groups but neither were great.

    I'll get out again Friday and shoot some more. Probably load a box with two different loads and try each one more in depth. Any thoughts what to try different, bullet seating depth? Any ideas why the bullets would shoot in different groups just me being a bad shot? They're good for shooting a deer or a coyote but I'd definitely like to improve them.
     

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  2. Eb1

    Eb1 Member

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    Try a different a primer.

    I had tested my .25-06 using 49.0 grains IMR 4350 with 115 gr CTBT with Winny brass.

    4 different sets of 5 all the same accept the primer. It was very apparent to me that Winchester primers shot best in my loads with IMR 4350.
     
  3. chris in va

    chris in va Member

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    Gun model used?

    I'd be more concerned why the rounds didn't fire. I've never had an issue with CCI which leads me to believe the primers aren't being seated properly or there's an issue with the gun's ignition system.

    BTW according to my Lyman manual those powder charges are at or above max, with 57gr being a compressed charge. Try backing it off to around 54-55gr.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2013
  4. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    Your "failed to fire" problems is one of two things.

    1. You failed to fully seat the primers all the way.
    2. You are pushing the shoulders back too far and the firing pin can't reach the primers.

    #1 is likely, #2 is very unlikely.

    I can't help you with your shooting.
    What range were you shooting at??

    If it was 100 yards, the first target doesn't look all that bad for a 5-shot group in the wind.

    rc
     
  5. travisd

    travisd Member

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    Mossberg ATR w/ Nikon prostaff 3-9. Shooting at 100 yards. The primers all seemed to be seated the same, I'm thinking one was bad because it didn't go off after 3 hits, and the other one could have been seated bad since it went off on the second. First target was only 4 shots, but no wasn't that bad except for the one flier
     
  6. chris in va

    chris in va Member

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    Primers seated slightly below flush? I reload for my Garand, a couple thousand so far, zero duds with CCI. They have to be pressed in pretty hard.
     
  7. LivewireBlanco

    LivewireBlanco Member

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    Could the primers have been contaminated with oil somehow?
     
  8. Cougar71

    Cougar71 Member

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    That would be my next guess.
     
  9. travisd

    travisd Member

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    Don't know how they would have been contaminated but it's possible.
     
  10. Bull Nutria

    Bull Nutria Member

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    i load 52g of IMR 4350 in 30.06 with hornaday 165g interloks and a CCi 200 LR primer, this is an old accuracy load from the plastic bound lyman manual.it shoots very well in my Rem model 760 pump. 1 to 1.5 inch groups at 100 yds off sand bags. i don't ever recall a dud CCI primer and i have loaded about 2000 over the years in my 30.06, 30-30 and 7mm08.

    Make sure you seat the primers fully. you may want to try less powder but it looks like your groups are really nice for shooting on a windy day. shooting technique is very impt. in developing loads --take your time between shots. let the rifle cool after groups of 5. sporter weight barrels get hot easliy!!

    good luck and have fun with your quest for good accurate ammo!!

    Bull
     
  11. fol4321

    fol4321 Member

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    what about media stuck in the flashole
     
  12. Eb1

    Eb1 Member

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    Regarding CFO not firing. I had a 1000 box of 250s that did not want to pop.
    My reply was in regards to accuracy with different primers.
     
  13. travisd

    travisd Member

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    I'm guessing it was just a bad primer. Didn't tumble them. Haven't heard about 52 grs but maybe ill try a few out for the fun of it. Also sounds like im expecting too much lol
     
  14. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    You don't get bad CCI primers, unless you soak them in water or oil before you use them.

    I have used CCI primers since the 1970's and have never ever had a miss-fire with one.

    rc
     
  15. egg250

    egg250 Member

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    Travis,

    You say you didn't tumble the brass? What steps did you include in your reloading process? For my rifles I:

    1. Tumble Clean
    2. Size/De-cap
    3. Check Length/Trim
    4. De-Burr (if cases were trimmed)
    5. Prime
    6. Charge/Seat Bullet
     
  16. BYJO4

    BYJO4 Member

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    There is always a chance of having a defective or contaminated primer. I would shoot more rounds to see if it continues and if it does, then look at possible problem with the rifle. Your best group was with the lightest load. Since all your loads are on the max side, I would try reducing charge to see if groups gets better.
     
  17. edfardos

    edfardos Member

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    pictures of primer strikes? What rifle?. Twist rate?

    my magic '06 load is a hdy 150 with 57grains of 4350 lit with a win lrp through a remington 700.

    you've got to be close. Shooting off bags a/o bipod right?

    edfardos
     
  18. travisd

    travisd Member

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    It's never had a problem with light strikes before. I'm thinking it was a bad primer since 3 hits should have seated it enough to go off it if wasn't all the way. I'm sure even CCI makes a bad one once in a while.
    @egg250 I do about the same as you except I don't tumble my brass. All I did this time was size, prime and load it. Ill trim it next time.
    Had a good rest to shoot off. Should be less windy next time and I loaded my next batch a little lighter. Hopefully it'll do a little better. As for the primers I had already used over half the pack for other rifles without any problems. This is the first one I had a problem with. I'll just pull it and reuse everything.
     
  19. ljnowell

    ljnowell Member

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    A bad day at the range is still better than a good day at work, right?
     
  20. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    How can you be sure??

    Like I said, I've never had a bad one in 40+ years so far!

    Your chances of getting 2-3 in a row are less then winning the Power-Ball lottery.

    It just isn't going to happen in your lifetime.

    You need to look for another reason for the mis-fires.

    rc
     
  21. gamestalker

    gamestalker member

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    I've never had a mis-fire with my reloads and I've been at it for several decades. I'm on the same page as RC as to possible causes, especially since you had more than one fail to fire.

    Regarding your groups, considering you were shooting in wind that was strong enough to knock your target over, I would venture to say those loads didn't get a fair evaluation. I've been loading with IMR-4350 for both the .270 win. and 30-06 for a long time, and those powder charges are deffinitely too high. Which brings me to the question of why you started your work up at the maximum and then exceeded it?

    I begin at the low end of the charge table, say 52.0 - 53.0 grs. and work up in .5 gr. increments until you've found the most accurate charge. If you decide to increase the OAL, as in closing the distance to the lands, be sure to do that at the low end of the charge table, and watch for excessive pressures as you get closer to the lands.

    GS
     
  22. travisd

    travisd Member

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    I can't be sure. Can you be positive they haven't out of the millions/ billions of primers they've made?? I had one that fired on the second strike, after the first presumably seated it the rest of the way.
    So that leaves only one that still failed after several strikes that should have seated it fully if it wasn't to begin with. Add on that the gun had never had a problem firing with the other reloads and a bunch of factory ammo, a bad primer makes plenty of sense.
     
  23. travisd

    travisd Member

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    The wind was only 10ish mph, the target just got folded over a little. And seeing as Hodgdon has the starting load at 56gr with a max of 60, it seems perfectly reasonable to me.
     
  24. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    By the second, third, or forth strike, the primer compound under the anvil will be crushed up into dust and fall out through the flash hole.

    If there is no primer pellet left between the anvil and primer pocket, you can re-strike it into fused brass, and it isn't going to go off.

    That doesn't make the primer bad.

    That makes your re-priming technique bad.

    rc
     
  25. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

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    I load for the 30-06 with 4350 for all my bolt action rifles with 165/168gr bullets and CCI primers.

    Lyman 49 lists 57.0gr as Max for IMR4350
    Hornady #9 also lists 57.0gr as the Max for IMR4350

    When I use IMR4350 I charge 57.0gr under a 165/168gr Sierra bullet.
    When I use H4350 I charge 58.0gr under the same bullets.

    My son shoots a Remington 700 and that gun just loves a 165gr Sierra GameKing under 57.0gr IMR4350. That load delivers very tight groups out to 300 yards and it's his favorite 30-06 load.

    I shoot a Howa 1500 and with a 165gr Sierra GameKing and a charge of 58.0gr H4350 that rifle will deliver a .314" group @100 yards. Both loads are made with CCI primers and Win, Rem or Federal brass.

    BTW, those targets don't look all that bad so I'm not sure why you think you had a bad day at the range. That 56.5gr load you shot is @ 1/2MOA, what's wrong with that?
     
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