Bad news. Hunter loses it, kills five, wounds others

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Just takes one nut, drunk, or lost temper to inspire anti-gun legislation.

He walked away 40 yards and fiddled with his rifle, removing his scope, before he turned around to engage. I wonder what was said during the preceding argument. Regardless of whatever threats or racial slurs were used, the guy's actions plainly show premeditation. What a waste. :(

I was thinking about going hunting next month -- maybe not.
 
Please, folks, let's try to keep to the high road here on the High Road.

Let's not start in on the old "they eat our puppies" crap, please.

The word is "Hmong" -- pronounced "mung." The word is both a noun, indicating the group, and an adjective to describe individuals in that group, so:

"Cha Yang is Hmong. He is a member of the Hmong community. Hmong funeral rites last for weeks."

The reports of Hmong hunters and anglers disregarding bag limits is greatly exaggerated, even according to the Wisconsin DNR:

http://www.wnrmag.com/supps/1999/oct99/caught.htm
Mezei and Kalmerton note that at least 50 percent of complaints about alleged violations involving Hmong are unfounded. Kalmerton remembers one complaint accusing Hmong hunters of sneaking out an untagged buck during the gun season. The hunters had covered the animal’s head with a pillowcase, which the witness believed was done to mask the lack of a tag. Kalmerton found the group, found the buck properly tagged and learned that in their homeland, Hmong often traveled far to hunt. It was their custom to cover the eyes of the dead animal so it wouldn’t know it was being removed from its home area. “It was out of respect,†says Kalmerton.

"There seems to be a perception that Hmong people violate conservation laws at every opportunity," says Mezei. “That’s just not the case. We’ve spent a lot of time working to change the Hmong view of wildlife as an unregulated food source and feel we’re definitely making headway.â€

Also, please remember that this is ONE GUY. He no more represents Hmong immigrants than he does gun owners.
 
Well, I don't know but it seems we may b placing a lot more social/political importance on this than anyone else is. I've watched it on other forums and, really, the story hasn't drawn a lot of interest. It didn't make the evening radio news except as a 10 second blurb. *shrug* Like I said a page or two ago, it's just not going to be an easy story to use. Minority immigrant, plain looking rifle, non-PC victims... I'm sure they'll get *some* mileage from this but I'm beginning to believe it really won't be much.
 
If you have never had the displeasure of hunting any public hunting ground with-in a 100 mile radius of the twin cities, consider yourself lucky. Deer hunting in Carlos Avery is just plain suicide. They have no qualms in shooting in your direction to get you to move if their group wants to hunt or drive the area. The problem is the group can be in excess of 30 people. the land owners around the park have their hands full keeping the hmong off private property. Lots of the "no speak english" when caught.
PS, the AM radio news is reporting that most of the individuals where shot in the back while trying to escape.
 
Guy B Meredith:
Is there not a round limit for hunting rifles as well as shotguns? The report says the shooter may have had a 20 magazine.
No, there isn't. I checked this before I went hunting this year because I planned (and did) use my AR-10 chambered in .308. When I hunted in MN with it a couple of years ago I picked up a 5-round mag for. Its nice to have a spare though, so I always have an additional 10-round mag loaded with 5 or 6 with me. That doesn't mean I didn't have a couple 20-rounders back at the truck loaded up with FMJ.
 
Well

I can say I have learned tolerance here on THR if not much else.

Let's all get off the Hmong, mong, hung whatevers guy's back. We will know more facts in the fullness of time.

Remember what I'm sure you have all heard here many times, until this unfortunate clash of cultures took place and he started shooting people, he was very likely doing a job no American would take!

Gotta be!

S-
 
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Couple of things on the side arm deal:
Must be .22 caliber centerfire or bigger.
Must be 5.5" muzle to firing pin with the action closed.
It is illegal to hunt with a concealed weapon, per last year when the law was pending.

About the smallest that makes it is a 4 5/8" ( + cyl.) blackhawk or a a long slide 1911.

It is kinda a pain to load up 2 guns each time you get in and out of your truck, I don't hunt chunks of land much bigger than 100 acres very much. Lot of drive time inbetween drives.

Bottom line, very tragic indeed. Little prayer for familly's involved.
Someone lost a husband and son, Other fathers possibly with a Woman dead also. Puts in all in perspective.....................
 
HOLY S...

I just got back from a week long vacation, and was blown away to hear about this crazy guy. I skipped the deer hunting opener for the first time in many years. I hunt about 40 miles from where these poor people got shot. I don't have anything to say right now that would be "The High Road" so I am just going to shut up.
 
I get a kick out of the guys who are so rattled by this that they refuse to go hunting.

so what?

What do they think? that theres a whole army of these guys out there taking over deer stands?

big deal, bring a bigger gun and if you find some nut in your stand keep your gun pointed casually in the guys direction, till he gets down and leaves, better yet bring a cell and call the cops to come get him out. A few of those "theres a guy in my stand and he wont leave" calls and somthing will happen.
 
Last night, before the news broke that he had military experience, I was posting that his actions seemed very "Rambo-ish" in nature. Now it's being reported that he was in the US Army. I'm going to pat myself on the back for being able to read a situation.

He may TRY to claim racism as a self defense motive...but it's going to be hard to get apologetic testimony from all those dead witnesses he left in the woods. The lack of guns on the part of the other hunters does not bode well for Mr. Vang self defense argument, either.

Being led back to the spot and executed by the family members of the people killed was suggested somewhere else. Sounds good to me.
 
Latest tidbit from the Star Tribune:

http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/5100076.html

SKS isn't classified as an assault rifle
Dennis Anderson, Star Tribune
November 23, 2004

John Monson, owner of Bill's Gun Shop and Range in Robbinsdale, regularly stocks "two or three" SKS semiautomatic rifles of the kind authorities said Chai Soua Vang of St. Paul used to kill six people and wound two others.

The weapon is often misrepresented as an "assault" rifle, Monson said, but the popular "sporterized," or hunting, version sold by Monson and used by some deer hunters was not covered by the federal assault weapons ban that recently expired.

Ya gotta love John. He is young, clean-cut, soft-spoken and eminently reasonable. He is the perfect spokesman for gun guys in the Twin Cities, and EVERY news outlet goes to him EVERY time guns are in the news.

The trigger of the semiautomatic SKS must be pulled each time to fire a round.

Hunting versions of the SKS can be purchased legally at gun shops.

The SKS is relatively cheap, retailing at Bill's Gun Shop and Range for $189, compared to $1,000 or more for more commonly used deer-hunting rifles. Its 7.62-by-39-millimeter ammunition is also cheap: A box of 40 rounds at Bill's costs $7.99.

So it would be, what, $5 anywhere else? :)

"The SKS is popular because it has low recoil, it's accurate and its ballistics are similar to popular .30-caliber loads," Monson said. The gun's stock is also short, making it popular with smaller shooters, he said.

The SKS version sold by Bill's and other gun shops is often 10 or more years old.

Though law enforcement authorities speculated at a press conference Monday in Rice Lake, Wis., that Vang's SKS held as many as 20 rounds, the gun typically holds 10 rounds and loads from the top, Monson said. However, aftermarket magazines that hold 20 rounds or more are available.

In 1989, President George H.W. Bush, in a presidential order, banned the import of SKS rifles from China following a mass shooting with an assault rifle in Stockton, Calif. Since then, SKS rifles manufactured in Russia and Yugoslovia have been imported into the United States.

The Wisconsin shootings created political ripples Monday in Washington, D.C., where the Violence Policy Center, a national handgun-control group, called for President Bush to use his executive authority to ban all foreign-made assault rifles. There's a shocker.

Washington Bureau Correspondent Kevin Diaz contributed to this report. Dennis Anderson is at [email protected].
 
Just heard the local NBC TV affiliate's version... and no mention of firearms type, actually, for the info given he could have shot them with a pistol.

Good on them. Doesn't matter what kind of gun it was...
 
What is funny is that I got home and read the foxnews report on this and then came here. From page 3 on there is some pretty wild speculation and rumors floating around and it just made me laugh.

It appears there was only 1 gun amongst the hunters. I ran into a marijuana farm back in 2000 on some public land and since then, I don't plan on hunting on public land without at least a handgun and several magazines if not my M1A and all of my 20 round magazines as back up. If I am hunting with buddies, I think it would be a good idea to make sure they are all armed as well.
 
here comes the VPC:
http://www.jointogether.org/gv/news/alerts/reader/0,2061,575245,00.html

Wisconsin Hunter Murders Show Need for Effective Assault Weapons Ban
11/22/2004

Press Release
Violence Policy Center
1140 19th Street, NW
Washington, DC 20036
www.vpc.org

Contact:
Marty Langley
Phone: 202-822-8200 ext. 109

Armed Hunters No Match for SKS Assault Rifle

President Has Power to Fully Ban Import of All Foreign-Made Assault Rifles Such As SKSs and Ak-47s

Washington, DC - SKS assault rifles like the one reported to have been used to murder five hunters and wound three others in Wisconsin over the weekend are a primary threat to police, the Violence Policy Center (VPC) reported today. So far in 2004, at least six law enforcement officers have been slain by SKSs. In the wake of the shooting, the VPC called on President George W. Bush today to use the Administration's executive authority over firearm imports to fully ban the import of all foreign-made assault rifles. Such an action would not require Congressional approval. The Bush Administration has specifically authorized the importation of SKS assault rifles from both Yugoslavia and Albania.

"Armed hunters were no match for one person firing an SKS assault rifle," said Kristen Rand, VPC legislative director. "This sad incident illustrates why the SKS is also a leading cop-killing rifle in America today."

Rand pointed out that the SKS assault rifle was not covered by the recently expired 1994 federal assault weapons ban. The VPC criticized the 1994 law as inadequate and favors enactment of a tougher version of the law that would ban the SKS and many other assault weapons that easily slipped through the old law's loopholes.

"Even though the 1994 law was easily circumvented by the gun industry, Congress has failed to move on a strong replacement law. President Bush could, with the stroke of a pen, tighten the import ban and stop the import of all foreign-made assault rifles," Rand said.

She noted that both the President's father, former-President George H.W. Bush, and former-President William J. Clinton stopped the import of hundreds of thousands of assault weapons by using their executive authority under firearms import and trade laws. Under the current Bush Administration, specific foreign-made assault rifles, including some SKSs, have returned to the marketplace.

For more information on the SKS assault rifle and the use of it and other assault weapons against law enforcement personnel, please visit www.vpc.org.

>>>>>>>>>

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=109&STORY=/www/story/11-22-2004/0002496552&EDATE=

Wisconsin Advocates Call on State Lawmakers to Pass Comprehensive Statewide
Assault Weapons Ban

MILWAUKEE, Nov. 22 /PRNewswire/ -- The Wisconsin Anti-Violence Effort
extends their deepest sympathy to the families and victims of the horrifying
and deadly shooting in Sawyer County, where a man used an SKS semi-automatic
assault rifle to gun down five hunters and wound three others. This tragedy
demonstrates the urgent need for an effective federal ban on military style
assault weapons. But since President Bush and Congress allowed the federal
assault weapons ban to expire in September of this year and seem disinterested
in passing a new law, Wisconsin lawmakers should, in the meantime, pass a
comprehensive statewide assault weapons ban. Reports suggested that the
shooting occurred after an argument escalated when hunters found 36-year-old
Chai Soua Vang using a tree stand belonging to someone else.
SKS military style, semi-automatic assault rifles, like the one used in
yesterday's tragic shooting, are the most common assault rifles used to kill
law enforcement offices in the United States, according to the Violence Policy
Center, a Washington, D.C. based think tank. In 2004, six law enforcement
officers in the United States have been gunned down by shooters using SKS
assault rifles.
"Over the years, we have seen that these military-style, semi-automatic
assault rifles are the guns of choice for cop-killers and mass murderers,"
said Jeri Bonavia, Executive Director of the Wisconsin Anti-Violence Effort.
"There is no good reason for hunting with a spray-fire gun, capable of 'hosing
down' a target area. Military-style guns, such as the SKS, do not belong on
our streets or in our fields and woods."
The Bush Administration has specifically authorized the importation of
some SKS assault rifles. The Bush Administration's regulatory power over
firearm imports means the President has the power and should ban the import of
all foreign-made assault rifles. Such an action would not require
Congressional approval. President Bush's predecessors, former-President
George H. W. Bush and former-President William J. Clinton, stopped the import
of hundreds of thousands of assault weapons by using their executive authority
under firearms import and trade laws.
"Since President Bush and members of Congress refused to protect Americans
by banning assault weapons, it is urgent that Wisconsin lawmakers take action
now," Bonavia added.
In September, Assemblywoman Christine Sinicki (20th District) announced
she would introduce statewide legislation to ban assault weapons in Wisconsin
in the wake of the expiration of the federal ban. "After this horrendous
shooting, it is more clear than ever that the Wisconsin State Legislature must
act now to ban assault weapons," Sinicki said.
There is overwhelming support for banning assault weapons from law
enforcement and from the citizens of Wisconsin, including 73% of likely voters
and 66% of gun owners in the state.


SOURCE Wisconsin Anti-Violence Effort
 
Think about the unfortunate dilemma facing our liberal, nerd-headed friends.

On one hand, a semi-automatic rifle commonly associated with "assault weaponry" was used to kill six people. Let's go!

But hold the press, the six people killed were all hunters stalking Bambi's mother the night before.

Oh, what to do!?
 
Jeff,

Not to forget that some Liberals are wanting to arm themselves to fight off the Right Wing JBTs that are going to contaminate their children's minds with Christianity. What to do without affordable SKS?

(I am not pro evangelical Christian, but also do not have the narrow Liberal focus.)
 
According to CHML news [Hamilton Ont ] the brother of the accused said he didn't think his brother would do such a thing unless he was 'provoked' !!! So provoked that he shot mostly unarmed people in the back !
 
Well growing up on Northern California I hunted alot of public lands. My father and I saw with our own two eyes similar situations with the Laos folks. The used to shoot 1 buck and cut the head off, carry it in their backpack for weeks on end while shooting illegal DOES. They would hunt in packs of 8 or 10 people shooting at anything that moved. They have no respect for the land or what it provides. We witnessed them killing squirels and poking a stick through their entire body and roasting them over the fire as they squat next to it. Burning all the hair off it til it bursts then eating it right off the stick. They also used to strip all the meat off the deer and make it into jerky size pieces then let it sun dry on bed sheets while the flies buzzed it. This was all done on the hunt so as to never have to leave the scene with anything illegal. Game Wardens typically had run ins with the guys but said they can do nothing because they don't understand our laws. So instead of educating them in the prison systems, they let them walk. Who's really to blame there?
 
The Wisconsin shootings created political ripples Monday in Washington, D.C., where the Violence Policy Center, a national handgun-control group, called for President Bush to use his executive authority to ban all foreign-made assault rifles.
From what I understand that ban is already in place per Bush Sr.

All of the so-called "semi-automatic assault rifles" available today are U.S. made.
 
I just heard about this whole ordeal last night as I was driving back from hunting camp (nothing like being blissfully cutoff from the news, the wife, and work for almost a week :) )

The lastest I've heard was that the perp did climb down out of the stand, and walked away. The victims were aways behind him, and once he had walked about 40 yards, he turned around and open fired on them, and chased down the ones who took cover. They never had a chance.

My best guess as to his motivation was that he might have been excited and on a hairtrigger already and heard a gunshot nearby and thought he was being shot at. This is a really thin reasoning, but is the best I could come up with. Saturday it rained most of the day, so many hunters did not go out, there wasn't much shooting where I was at saturday, but on Sunday, hunters were out in full force, what with the Packer game being a night game.
When you are out in the woods on opening weekend, especially opening day, there is a lot of gun fire that you can hear, and depending on the atmospheric conditions, the reports can sound much closer than they really are.
I'm not defending the man's actions one bit, but offering up a possible scenario. It is too bad that we don't have a death penalty in my state :mad:

As far as weapons go- SKSs aren't very common in wisconsin. Most use shotguns, lever actions, bolt actions or semi-auto remingtons. When I heard the name of the perp, I feared the worst, as most Laotians that I know or have seen either use a shotgun, SKS, or sometimes a mosin. Its illegal to possess FMJ cartridges while hunting.

As far as Hmong following game regulations, I'm not going to comment other than that there are some good ones and some bad ones. There are definately more 'great white hunters' who poach and shoot game illegally than Asians in my state.
 
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