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Baked handgun

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by ohbythebay, Jun 16, 2014.

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  1. tarakian

    tarakian Member

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    Wow, lots of responses that don't really take the "High Road". OP is not dissing anyone's lube method (or their grandfather's), but a lot of people seem to be willing to trash the method he is trying even though they have never tried it themselves. I see a fellow shooter trying to share something that is working for him. Don't like the idea, move on and keep using what works for you, or start your own thread sharing your method.
     
  2. ohbythebay

    ohbythebay Member

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    Trakian...thank you

    I myself don't understand the negativity expressed by some. I just gave one method. Never said it was the be all end all. Just what I do. Times do change too...lubricants and such have improved through the years.

    if the old method works, great. But some folks like to try new things so that is all I provided.

    Thanks again for your post..
     
  3. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    I have that barrel basking in the sun. I will shortly apply some of my FREE sample of Froglube and return it to the sun to do whatever it is that it does. I am hoping it will leave enough of a seasoned finish to prevent leading or at least make it easier to remove until I shoot up this large box of @#$% bullets.
     
  4. CWL

    CWL Member

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    You have to sit back and take a look at your posting. To me, and probably others, your post reads like another newb posting about something that is rather obvious. Nobody likes to be preached to.

    Promising 100 degrees is OK? ...Guns already get hot from firing. It takes around 338 degrees F for modern propellants to burn in the chamber, then the friction of a bullet forced down the barrel will add additional heat. Soldiers and sportsmen in the field have experienced up to 140 degrees F, just from environmental conditions. So you telling everyone about baking at 100 degrees is quite useless and silly.

    As for Frog Lube, you use it, great. I personally know a few people who had their Frog Lube change to mud in their guns. But if it makes you happy, go ahead and bake your lube. (BTW, all natural lubes have been around since the invention of firearms, no big deal)

    Just remember that there are shooters out here with decades (as many as 50 years) of firearms experience here on THR. They've seen it all already, over and over.
     
  5. 460Shooter

    460Shooter Member

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    Any time you post "what you do" or an opinion on this forum, be prepared to take criticism. There will always be differing opinions. Granted, some express those thoughts in a blunt way, but if you are going to have hurt feelings or heartburn over someone disagreeing with your opinion or method, or lacking tact in how they express that, then posting said information is a bad idea. Differing opinions will always exist.

    Sometimes folks can see a method is hogwash without having to try it themselves when there is no basis for it what so ever. Think about it for a few minutes and it will make sense.

    The OP stated
    All correct information. Guns regularly get heated up beyond 100 and 110 degrees by being left in the sun at the range, by being left in a vehicle, and even by just absorbing body heat.

    Then he says
    No matter how you read it, this statement says "work into the metal" which rcmodel correctly pointed out
    Then the OP proceeds to back pedal and say
    THIS is probably correct. What heating the gun is accomplishing is that it is in turn heating the lubricant, and the viscosity of the lube is being reduced in turn. The lube then likely flows into the hard to reach places more freely. But that is in fact, NOT what was said in the original post. So to turn around and then call your critics stupid for disagreeing with a statement that implies/says what we are saying is a nonsense premiss is pretty inappropriate. Especially given the "I mistyped" statement. The reality of it is that the OP misunderstood what was being accomplished by heating the gun.

    It always makes me laugh when a person says they "mistyped or mis-spoke." If you convey incorrect information because of a lack of understanding, it means you misunderstood, or were ignorant, and then passed on incorrect information. "Mistype or mis-spoke" are terms designed to make someone feel ok with the fact that they messed up and said something inaccurate.

    "Sir do you have any idea how fast you were going? You were going 20 mph over the posted speed limit! I'm giving you a ticket for speeding."

    "Umm, well officer, you shouldn't give me a ticket. I wasn't speeding............. I misdrove."

    Guess what, you'd still get a ticket.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2014
  6. ohbythebay

    ohbythebay Member

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    My initial assumptions were correct

    1) No good deed goes unpunished
    2) Ego drives many of the negative posts (I have been doing this for 50 years...blah blah ) So ? That doesn't make that person an expert. Just long lived. And probably have developed long standing bad habits along with the good ones.
    3) Some people have closed minds
    4) Some people just like to pick things apart. I "backpeddled" not because I felt I was wrong - I knew what I meant - but since it was pointed out , I clarified. Have you folks ever said something in a way people didn't understand so you clarified your statement

    and finally...
    #5 - Intelligence is limited but ignorance knows no bounds...I have proof. Just read this thread.
     
  7. ohbythebay

    ohbythebay Member

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    CWB....newbie ?

    Oh...you mean not part of THR good old buy club ? At 54, I am not a newbie.

    As has been pointed out, I think the site needs a name change because not many here are talking the High Road...More like the High Horse
     
  8. 460Shooter

    460Shooter Member

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    That's great. You should have written that instead of what you did, because we can't read your mind.

    Sure lots of times. Where I take issue is you made a statement that you changed later. That's fine to clarrify or explain things more clearly, but you changed it AFTER a number of us pointed out that what you said was wrong. Again, there is nothing wrong with changing your statement after others point out a mistake. Nothing wrong with that at all. But then you proceed on with
    Calling people stupid for pointing out your mistake is pretty rediculous, especially since you did say
    We see what you mean, about the heat facillitating the lube working into the nooks and crannies, but up until you made that correction, people will obviously chime in with statements that more or less say "WRONG!"

    Be literal, because no one will know what you mean if you don't say what you mean. You yourself acknowledge that what you originally said was incorrect, and that's fine, but why are you now mad that people pointed that out, and how do you think you have the right to call those people stupid?
     
  9. ohbythebay

    ohbythebay Member

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    460Kodiak...since you seem bent on derailing

    any value add to this thread, let me clarify for you

    I did not call anyone stupid.
    The actions were stupid. Very intelligent people can still postulate stupid ideas or make false assumptions; doesn't make them stupid. Just their actions. You just made a false assumption by slanting what I said incorrectly. I was quite clear in my assertion.

    I made a mistake earlier. I missed two words. I should have said "Metal Frame Small Parts" instead of "Metal Frame". Is this your value-add to this thread ? I made a written mistake ? Is that your takeaway? Did you really feel the need to thread crap ?

    So you want me to be literal? Okay. None of your picking apart on this thread has added any value to the original intent of the thread. Do you have a better heating temperature? Should it have been waxed paper instead of parchment paper ? Does this work well with other brands?

    Nope. Use it, Don't use it. I care not a wit. I still plan on making a video and those who find it useful, great. Those who don't, don't have to watch. Its really that simple.
     
  10. 460Shooter

    460Shooter Member

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    That's fair enough and you are correct. So I will rephrase.......

    How do you think you have the right to say that the actions of others are stupid to point out your mistake, when you yourself acknowledge that what you originally said was incorrect?

    Now that that is fixed, I think I see the issue. I'm trying to be constructive here now ok? You just said
    Seriously now, I'm not bashing. I think I just discovered the real problem. Go back and look at your original post. You didn't even say "Metal Frame", you said

    You said the "metal", not "metal frame"! That's why we all jumped on you before you corrected your comment. Based on your original post, it sounds like you thought the lube would litterally enter "THE METAL". That's why RCmodel chimed in the way he did! That's why several others of us said "no, wrong, incorrect". Do you see that? If you had in fact said

    "2) FrogLube recommends heating - so the liberal coating is allowed to work into the metal frame(warm metal expands even if it microscopic at that temp vs contracted cold metal)"
    there wouldn't have been any issue at all. In fact I'm guessing you would have gotten a bunch of replies that said "Hmmm, that's one way to do it." Am I right? Is this all a big misunderstanding because of the omission of the word "frame" when you thought you had included it?

    See then, when you corrected yourself and (let's be honest) got kind of mad in post 22, it's because you thought everyone was putting words in your mouth. But because of the lack of the word frame, everyone thought you meant something totally different than what you said, but you didn't realize you left out that critical word. I think your perception that it is foolish for people to jump on board with rcmodel, stemmed from the idea that you had infact posted something other than what you did. And if you had posted what thought, I'd agree with you. I think heating the gun is unnecessary overall, but it would probably help spread the lube around the frame. However, that minor discrepancy then made you look like you were backpeddling in post 22.

    In putting the pieces together, I don't think you said what you thought you said in your original post.

    If I am misunderstanding what I see in this entire thread, please do say so, but I think a few of us are victims of a misunderstanding here because of one word's absense. Take a look and tell me if you agree, cuz now I want to get to the bottom of this.

    If not, well then man I'd say that the gun should be heated to whatever temperature Frog Lube tells you, not me, as that will be the vital temperature needed to decrease the lube's viscocity and allow it to work it's way in, and get all your parts coated.

    Making a video would be good, now that we understand what you meant.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2014
  11. ohbythebay

    ohbythebay Member

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    To wrap this up

    and save time...No, I do not think nor did I ever think oil would penetrate into the molecular structure of the metal. My mistake for wording. Excuse me. Now lets move on now that it is cleared up. BTW- There were other negatives beyond that point but no need to rehash. Lets just call this part a day.

    I will make the video this weekend. People can see the method and result and decide for themselves if it adds any value for them.

    One other note - I don't heat the gun any warmer because I just want the stuff to flow and evaporate any water content, not burn the stuff on. Plus I wont risk any plastic or poly parts - warm is sufficient (as folks will see from the video).

    Have a good day.
     
  12. twofifty

    twofifty Member

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    ohbythebay when you first posted I was tempted to point out that leaving your HG in sunlight might just accomplish the same results as your 'baking' idea.

    Betcha cooking forum threads on seasoning cast iron pans are troublesome too. Don't feel bad. ;)
     
  13. Walt Sherrill

    Walt Sherrill Member

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    1. No waste? If you've applied it liberally, you've got waste -- and arguably more than if you applied it more selectively. Just because it didn't drip and fall onto a pan liner or desktop doesn't mean there wasn't a lot that evaporated. Still wasteful.

    2. Heating the materials (oil, etc.) so that it penetrates cracks and crevices may be a good thing, but there's not likely to be much rust taking place in those hard-to-reach locations, and there's certainly not going to be a lot of wear or friction in those nooks and crannies.

    3. Baking ON a finish is a process that has to do with curing/hardening the "finish" materials and little to do with the underlying metal or improving the bond of the finish material to the metal.
     
  14. meanmrmustard

    meanmrmustard Member

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    I'll add to your #3, Walt.

    If one preps their surface properly, it usually consists of a bead blasted surface prior to using the bake on finish. This is to give the intended surface an uneven, divoted finish so the liquid has places to grab and adhere. Why is that important on a firearm?

    NO PORES!!!!
     
  15. Walt Sherrill

    Walt Sherrill Member

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    Duplicated while editing. Sorry.
     
  16. ohbythebay

    ohbythebay Member

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    twofifty...oh no !

    Not the dreaded iron skillet seasoning thread...LOL...Took me 6 months to teach my wife NOT to degrease our iron skillets..now she loves em..

    Walt...when you pay my bills we can talk waste :p

    On a more serious note..I have cleaned 3 handguns and 2 rifles at least 4 times each (20 cleanings) and I have used MAYBE 1/5th of the bottle. I don't gob it on..neither do I make two drops spread. its not like oil.

    if you ever USED it yourself you would understand how it is applied.

    You don't understand baking on a finish. You can bake on car wax, furniture polish, oil, varnish, etc. - all it means is using heat to create an adhesive bond between the materials which is performed much better warm/hot than cold. Try doing polyurethane in a cold garage.

    We can argue all day or
    You can add some value...Not seeing it..
     
  17. meanmrmustard

    meanmrmustard Member

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    Its lube.

    I'm not a naysayer telling tales outta school, but id bet my bottom dollar I knows how to use it.

    But, hey, I'm simple folk. I use MPro7. It works, like, lube. Go figure.
     
  18. meanmrmustard

    meanmrmustard Member

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    Poly in a cold garage? Easy. Blast the part, paint, wait exponentially longer for it to dry, and viola. Amazing what hardners and accelerator does to chemical finish/paint. That, and patience. I would know, I use it daily at work, year long. Hot parts with no blasted finish just dont adhere. I've finished scores of firearms with Duracoat, Alumahyde, and Cerakote. No blasty, no sticky.

    Frog Lube has neither of those two chemicals, so...im confused by your analogy.
     
  19. Walt Sherrill

    Walt Sherrill Member

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    Hey! You brought up the topic, not me... and described a process/method of application that allows any excess liquid to evaporate rather than drip onto a surface. Had you said said "less messy," rather than "no waste" I would have been silent on this point.

    And baking a finish generally hardens it (but often is just a way of speeding the drying process); as far as I can tell (and have read) it doesn't really change the NATURE of bond between the finish and the underlying materials. And NONE of that would seem applicable with a liquid meant to lubricate or prevent corrosion. If it hardens, it can't lubricate.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2014
  20. ohbythebay

    ohbythebay Member

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    You guys are something

    Seem to have an answer for everything...and have little value

    Make stuff up as you go along...I never said the stuff evaporates...comes out still coated but I did say any water content may evaporate ...no waste means..no waste. No drippyness before or after ...I said coated liberally - understand ? Comprende ? Si habla engish ? I didn't say dip it. I didn't say saturate it like a wet paper towel, I said apply liberally. Google it.


    Not on my stuff thanks...I never mentioned heating polyurethane did I ? Fact - you guys need to learn to read. Fact - it would be pretty silly to say that poly works just as well applied in a 34 degree garage ..than in a 70 degree garage.

    But don't take my word for it...look it up...Min temperature recommend by almost all manufacturers is 50 degrees ...optimal is in the 70-75 range...

    But hey...now we are talking polyurethane and not frog lube and I still don't see how this is adding to the thread..still waiting...
     
  21. meanmrmustard

    meanmrmustard Member

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    Cold garage, implies opposite of hot, or even room temperature.
    Liberally means, verbatim, generous in amount. Generous amounts of liquid, now don't quote me, tend to run, drip, and sag. Now, poll the members here you've no qualms with disagreeing physical fact with, and ill wager that a "generous amount" of Frog Lube is saturation. Arguing semantics isn't going to prove a point or win you votes. No one sounds convinced, my friend.

    You brought up poly, not me. You brought up pans or pots or some nonsense, not Walt.


    Been a member of this forum for 3 years, and this is the first time I can officially say this and not feel bad:

    I smell a troll. To be more High Road, I'll attack the argument: There has not been nor will be value to this thread. It has read from the beginning as a how-to that does nothing of importance. The OP has been proven to lack any substantial proof of claims or process. To call out fellow members after having done so, to imply stupidity, to be plain argumentative rather than debate, provide fact, and move on is not High Road.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2014
  22. GBExpat

    GBExpat Member

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    ohbythebay is no Troll.

    He really likes FrogLube and just wanted to share what he has recently done ...

    ... and then the Thread spun horribly out of control.

    I imagine that he is currently feeling a bit trapped ... as I have had a thread spin out on me before ... and I am probably not the only one reading this with like experience(s). ;)
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2014
  23. meanmrmustard

    meanmrmustard Member

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    As have I. More than once.

    However, I myself did not argue against experience, nor verbally berate fellow members for my apparent lack of dog in the fight.

    While I have no doubt that the OP likes his Frog Lube, I've read, reread, and read again the posts that were ON TOPIC, no one attacked based on the preferred lube of choice of the OP, but rather his process of distributing it, and the blatant misinformation regarding metallurgy. To imply, or state bald faced otherwise, that fellow members are stupid is quite trollish. Trust me, I hate that term. But, here, its quite fitting. I'll risk an infraction for that, but it's worth it.
     
  24. ohbythebay

    ohbythebay Member

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    If Mr. Mustards example

    Of the high road is acceptable behavior then this is not the place to be for anyone with common sense. I would hope he is in the minority.

    Basically, what I see is an inordinate number of jerks who think they know it all. (Yes, I called the negative nellies jerks so ban me)

    The thread started out quite positive and I just provided a simple process I use. Your choice to use it; don't use it; ignore it. Instead, with the exception of a few who do take the high road, I received quibble, argument, waste of time, more argument, putting words in my mouth...the only reason I can tell is some members (like ones who have puffed out their chest and said I have been here 3 years) have nothing better to do.

    Do I feel trapped? Nope. But I can be defensive when people put me in that stance, I should not have to defend something added to the site. No one can disprove what I posted and say "that doesn't work". Its all about their own limited knowledge. One picker even said "I would never use it because I know people who have had their guns get gummed up". Really ? That's like saying a cousins boyfriends sisters son said...

    So no first hand experience with it or my process but you feel qualified to provide a negative comment.

    I know I wont make 3 years here because there are too many low roaders...Its a shame because some here seem to be appreciative and have common sense. But if this is how you treat people not in the "club" or if you just want to sit and post crap all day..I have better things to do.

    Anyone interested in the final video can find it on youtube this weekend with some searches. I wont waste my time posting it here. I also wont be recommending this site to anyone from the range or from work.

    Good job chasing away new blood guys.
     
  25. GBExpat

    GBExpat Member

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    ... horribly out of control.

    Hopefully a Mod will wander by soon and put this Thread down.
     
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