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Baltimore Police are Under-Reporting Crime, as a Matter of Policy!!

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Helmetcase, Feb 14, 2006.

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  1. Helmetcase

    Helmetcase Member

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    Nothing encourages crime like letting criminals know that the crime they committed probably won't even be reported by the police!!

    Link.
     
  2. GTSteve03

    GTSteve03 Member

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    Cue LawDog and RealGun in 5... 4... 3...

    I'm sure this was all due to the politicos in Baltimore and nothing to do with the actual police force... :rolleyes:
     
  3. Helmetcase

    Helmetcase Member

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    That's exactly what's going on. At the behest of their political masters (Mayor O'Malley and Commissioner Hamm), crime has been under-reported as a matter of course. This isn't something the rank and file were doing (and if that's what you were implying I was saying...did you even bother to read the link? If you're gonna roll your eyes at me, better read up first), it was something that was clearly orchestrated by Hamm and O'Malley to make the problem look better than it was.

    No accident that O'Malley is running for governor.
     
  4. GTSteve03

    GTSteve03 Member

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    How can this not be something the rank and file are doing? They are the ones who are filling out (or not, in this case) the police reports for citizens, and threatening them with filing false claims.

    Did you even read the link? Here, let's have a quote:

    Just because the orders came from higher up, isn't an excuse. I seem to remember a few war-crimes trials where this defense was shot down...
     
  5. Helmetcase

    Helmetcase Member

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    The political pressure to do this is coming from the top. Yeah, yeah, just following orders isn't much of a defense--but let's be honest, the fish rots from the head down and this represents a failure of leadership.

    Yup, but in this case the leadership is not only not admonishing them for doing it, they're actually approving of and encouraging this practice. Publicly.

    Not only did I read it, I wrote it. Check my signature there, Sherlock. ;)

    Seems to me you came here to pick a fight. There's nothing to fight about here.

    We can agree there, but there have to be ramifications for leadership.
     
  6. GTSteve03

    GTSteve03 Member

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    Absolutely. And you're right about the fish rotting from the head-down, but I felt like you were totally ignoring the police force to focus all the attack on the mayor.

    I don't want any leadership to get off scot-free but I don't want that happening to the people who actually did the dirty work either.
     
  7. Sergeant Bob

    Sergeant Bob Member

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    On a Baltimore Radio Show, Duncan Dons the Mantle of Crime Fighter

    By John Wagner
    Friday, February 10, 2006; Page B05


    "Yeah, and I don't either," responded [b[Ed Norris[/b], the erstwhile Baltimore police commissioner who, after a six-month stint in prison, launched a radio show.

    Then they turned to a topic both were eager to discuss: crime.

    Duncan, a Democratic candidate for governor, used yesterday's one-hour appearance on WHFS-FM not only to broaden his exposure in Charm City but to preview his plan for an issue that has vexed his primary rival, Baltimore Mayor Martin O'Malley, even as violent crime has dropped in his city.

    Prompted by Norris, Duncan said he would use state money to help put 1,000 additional cops on the beat.

    "We need a Maryland version of COPS," Duncan said, referring to a national program championed by President Bill Clinton that helped Norris expand Baltimore's police force.

    Norris had just finished telling listeners that "my passion has always been crime-fighting" and that progress had stalled since his departure in 2002.

    "If you pull out Baltimore, the state looks kind of safe," Norris said. "You put Baltimore in, it's a very dangerous place."

    Norris left the city to become superintendent of the state police but was later convicted and sent to federal prison for using money from a city police fund to buy things such as Victoria's Secret lingerie for women he dated. He and O'Malley, who once seemed inseparable, are now estranged.

    As the show was wrapping up, O'Malley was in Annapolis, appearing before a bank of television cameras to lend support to legislation that would ban assault weapons.

    Duncan, meanwhile, was using Norris's program to talk about his leadership during the Washington-area sniper shootings of 2002. It was a rare episode that focused attention on crime in Montgomery County, which experienced only 19 homicides last year, compared with Baltimore's 269.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/09/AR2006020902062.html
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------

    One might think Norris has an agenda here, supporting Duncan, who happens to be running for governor too. One might also think Norris has a credibility problem, considering his past (ahem) indiscretions.

    His friend Duncan's touting his leadership during the Washington sniper shootings does not inspire much confidence in his abilities.
     
  8. Spot77

    Spot77 Member

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    Baltimore has been reporting their stats to the FBI differently than any other city in America. There's been proven discrepencies in the data that's reported and what was actually found during a recent audit.

    You can bet a donut on it - Mayor Martin O'Malley wants the Govenor's Mansion and will do anything to get it.
     
  9. Norton

    Norton Member

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    Doug Duncan the crime crusader....

    is the same Doug Duncan who continued to look for the mythical white van during the sniper case in spite of eyewitness accounts that it was two individuals in a sedan.

    Glad to hear he's on the job here :rolleyes:
     
  10. buzz_knox

    buzz_knox Member

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    Not really surprising. University/college police forces have been doing this for years. The administration didn't want the parents of prospective/current students to know what the real stats were.
     
  11. agricola

    agricola Member

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    It sort of sounds like they are checking to establish whether a crime has actually happened, and reminding the "victim" that making false reports is a crime too (especially when combined with insurance claims):

    I dunno what the situation is over in the US, but over here the current wave of mobile phone "crime" is strongly suspected to be driven by the fact that some insurers will only give a replacement phone if its stolen and not lost. Research has been conducted in several force areas and it suggests that between 13-25% of reports are false, with 100,000 false reports across the country. In term of overall crime that is down to false reports on mobile phones alone, thats about 2.5% of all crime in London:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/3020108.stm
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/4407358.stm
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/dorset/4120096.stm
     
  12. LawDog

    LawDog Moderator Emeritus cum Laude

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    What, exactly, does that mean?

    Considering that Ed Norris is a convicted felon, got fired from his Superintendant of State Police job for misappropriating Baltimore city funds, was indicted for violating Federal tax laws, and served Federal prison time for public corruption, conspiring to misuse police discretionary funds, and lying on is tax returns, you've got to admit that the source might have a bit of bias going.

    Since this is the kind of story that 60 Minutes producers pray for, are there any articles/investigations on this from anyone else?

    LawDog
     
  13. Coronach

    Coronach Moderator Emeritus

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    Furthermore, if the cops are doing it for their own benefit- hey, wait a minute! What benefit? What could they possibly have to gain from doing this, besides having one less report to take? It's not like they get more money if reported crime goes down (heck, a true cynic will note that they're more likely to get more money if it goes up).

    Sounds like someone is searching for a campaign issue, and has latched on to Bawlmer's admitted reporting errata and is trying to simultaneously make it larger than it is and novel.

    Mike
     
  14. 00-Guy

    00-Guy Member

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    One very important thing to remember: Since MOM (O'Malley) took office in 1999, there have been 4 police commissioners. Hamm is but the latest. Also if I remember correctly there has been a near complete shakeup of the senior staff. The only constant is MOM and middle management. I am not MOM's defender, but if it came from on high, I suspect that it could not have been kept secret for this long.

    IANAL, but it could be that several types of crime could be under reported. Property crime either theft or damage where no police report is needed for insurance purposes. I do not know how assaults could be under reported.

    Unbelieveable numbers (40% reduction) added to the shakeups in commissioners, make a planned program of under reporting make it tough for me to swallow. I suspect that things are just as bad now as they were in 1999 (and earlier).

    Also did anyone notice the increase in the population of Baltimore City? No, I didn't think so since it continues with flight to the suburbs. Why, bad schools, high crime, and no jobs in the city.
     
  15. fourays2

    fourays2 Member

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    everything will be fine as soon as they get those assualt weapons off the street:rolleyes:
     
  16. Archangel

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  17. Helmetcase

    Helmetcase Member

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    Yes, there are. Ed Norris was just talking about a news story that was run by WBAL TV here in Baltimore. This isn't just being made up. It's happening, and it's scary. http://www.thewbalchannel.com/news/7020235/detail.html

    Read the story. You're wrong. When the police don't take reports when people are shot, robbed, etc. that is indeed novel. It's also criminal.

    But don't just take it from me, take it from this guy, who ought to know:
    Heh, no kidding Doug.

    What's at work is here is O'Malley's under a ton of pressure in the race against Ehrlich, and he's resorting to some unsavory tactics, pure and simple.
     
  18. Helmetcase

    Helmetcase Member

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    This is great, cause up till last November I lived on Charles and Heath, about 100yds away from this (one block).

    Unbelievable. That's clearly part of a systematic effort to under-report crime for political reasons.
     
  19. Waitone

    Waitone Member

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    Nothing new here, people. Move along.

    Why is anyone surprised or outraged that government lies. Collection of statistics is biased because so much is at stake in terms of grants, funding, business, etc. Little secret is the federales have been juicing federal economic statistics since mid-way though Clinton's second term and continues to date uncorrected.

    What is surprising is there are people who actually think governmental statistics are impartial and accurate.
     
  20. LawDog

    LawDog Moderator Emeritus cum Laude

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    Whoops, hang on here. This article y'all linked to:
    http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/loc...,3252671.story

    States, and I quote:
    Now, did he artificially inflate crime numbers, or did he order officers not to report crimes?

    Either one or the other, guys.

    LawDog
     
  21. Helmetcase

    Helmetcase Member

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    I'd take what his opponent Duncan says with a grain of salt in that instance, but I don't see why it's either/or. Cook the books upwards for the year before you take office when you're in power and have the numbers in front of you, and then every year there after fudge the numbers downward to make it look like you're doing a bang up job fighting crime.

    Hey, if you're gonna cheat, might as well do it both ways to increase the effect.
     
  22. LawDog

    LawDog Moderator Emeritus cum Laude

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    Agreed, but you'd think that the quoted article would mention both, yes?

    The only thing it mentions about statistics, is the accusation that they've been inflated, but then points out that the statistics are still being audited, said audit to be completed in August.

    Ah.

    *scratch, scratch*

    Should we take this quote with a grain of salt, too?
    LawDog
     
  23. Helmetcase

    Helmetcase Member

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    One would think. My guess is that the hooks are already in MOM pretty well (this story has national implications, he's considered a rising star in the Dem party, think Bill Clinton in 1988) on this story, no need to make it look worse I guess :).

    Probably. It is, after all, an election year, and Duncan continues to not impress me. The funny thing is he's a gun grabber (look at the letter I sent him today on my site if you care to) who still doesn't get it--the police are actively under-reporting crime at the behest of their political masters, we're the most violent state in the union outside Louisiana, but you can't carry a gun to protect yourself.

    Unreal.

    What we shouldn't take with a grain of salt is the $%*&^%! Police Commissioner freely admitting that this is the way they're tabulating crime stats and filing reports. This ain't no joke--as besmirched as Norris' record is thanks to giving his groupies Victoria's Secret outings on the company tab, even he was shocked at how much of his work had been undone.
     
  24. Spot77

    Spot77 Member

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    Extract it from the current argument, and YES, you should take EVERYTHING from Doug Duncan's mouth with a grain of salt.

    And a few shots of tequilla. It'll make it more believable. ;)
     
  25. pcf

    pcf Member

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    MOM gets a pass for just about everything in the media since he's announced plans to unseat "Mini-me Bush", Gov. Robert Ehrlich.

    Taken from table 8 of the FBI UCR, for Baltmore (note that Table 8 does not contain statistic for Baltimore, 1999). Tables are listed by type of crime, then year, number of crime, crime per 100k. The final row is the percent difference between 2000 and 2004, this does not take into account years 2001-2003. Nation and Maryland numbers are from 2004. Draw your own conclusions. Can't stop people from killing each other, but somehow manage to reduce reported rapes by 50%, and taught people to keep their hands to themselves.

    Population
    Nation __ 293,655,404
    Maryland_5,558,058
    2004 __ 634,279
    2003 __ 644,544
    2002 __ 671,028
    2001 __ 660,826
    2000 __ 647,955
    2000-04 __ -2.1%

    Violent Crime
    Nation __ 1,367,009 __ 475.8
    Maryland __ 38,932 __ 700.5
    2004 __ 11,667 __ 1,839.4
    2003 __ 11,183 __ 1,735.0
    2002 __ 13,789 __ 2,054.9
    2001 __ 14,799 __ 2,239.5
    2000 __ 16,033 __ 2,469.8
    2000-04 -27.1% -25.5%

    Murder and Non-Negligent Homocide
    Nation __ 16,137 __ 5.5
    Maryland __ 521 __ 9.4
    2004 __ 276 __ 43.5
    2003 __ 270 __ 41.9
    2002 __ 253 __ 37.7
    2001 __ 256 __ 38.7
    2000 __ 261 __ 40.3
    2000-04 +5.7% +7.9%

    Forcible Rape
    Nation __ 94,635 __ 32.2
    Maryland __ 1,316 __ 23.7
    2004 __ 182 __ 28.7
    2003 __ 204 __ 31.6
    2002 __ 178 __ 26.5
    2001 __ 196 __ 44.8
    2000 __ 366 __ 56.5
    2000-04 -50.2% -49.2%

    Robbery
    Nation __ 414,235 __ 136.7
    Maryland __ 12,761 __ 229.6
    2004 __ 4,050 __ 638.5
    2003 __ 4,339 __ 637.2
    2002 __ 4,714 __ 702.5
    2001 __ 5,747 __ 869.7
    2000 __ 6,613 __ 1,020.6
    2000-04 -38.8% -37.4%

    Aggravated Assault
    Nation __ 120,374 __ 220.6
    Maryland __ 24,334 __ 437.8
    2004 __ 7159 __ 1128
    2003 __ 6370 __ 988.3
    2002 __ 8644 __ 1228.2
    2001 __ 8500 __ 1286.3
    2000 __ 8763 __ 1352.4
    2000-04 -18.3% -16.5%
     
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