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Barrel preservation, keeps corroding

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by sv51macross, Jun 8, 2011.

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  1. sv51macross

    sv51macross Member

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    Alright. I have a Century AK-74, which means corrosive milsurp 7n6 and a non-chrome barrel. I took it shooting once* and thought I'd got the bore cleaned. Then a week later I took a look down the bore and it was dark. A quarter bag of patches later (exaggeration) I thought it was cleaned back out, and made sure there were several drops of rem-oil in the barrel. Again, a couple weeks later I checked it again and more rust in there.

    Here's the qualifier. Due to familial circumstances I cannot bring it inside the house and limited financial means, combined with this being my only firearm, mean a safe cannot be bought at this time and the gun is merely well hidden in the garage in a hard case. (Plus, I live in Ann Arbor Mi...the only crime in our area is on the roads). Is it simply the humidity, and I should keep dessicants in the brake and chamber? I made sure this time the last patch came out as clean as it went in and the bore is blindingly shiny when held-up to the light.

    [meanwhile, the viewers of this thread start posting bets that the next outing reveals 10" groups and keyholing from the corrosion damage]

    *No keyholing, and for the first time ever shooting a gun period, after 60 rounds I was getting 4 MOA. Just a data point.
     
  2. NCsmitty

    NCsmitty Member

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    I would say that your cleaning procedure was flawed from the beginning. Corrosive priming requires copious amounts of HOT water to dissolve the salts, then clean with solvents, and oil. Once the corrosion gets a foothold in the steel, it will likely be a constant problem for you unless you replace the barrel. It's apparent your storage presents a problem too.
    Corrosive ammo dictates a dedicated cleaning procedure.



    NCsmitty
     
  3. Effigy

    Effigy Member

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    Did you wash the bore and gas tube with water after shooting corrosive ammo? I don't shoot that stuff, but this seems to be the standard practice. If you didn't use water there may still be some residue in there causing rust.

    Failing that, I wouldn't be surprised if it was the humidity. I live in Wisconsin so I'm familiar with the summer humidity. It's probably not a bad idea to try sticking a desiccant pack in the chamber and muzzle if you're storing it outside.
     
  4. benEzra

    benEzra Moderator Emeritus

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    You really need plenty of water to wash out the corrosive salts; they're not very oil soluble. I would rinse the bore generously with hot water (taking care not to get the furniture wet, if possible), then clean normally and oil generously with a good corrosion inhibitor. Since you are storing it in a garage, you might want to consider running a patch of Corrosion-X or Boeshield T-9 (available at boat supply stores) through the bore instead of regular gun oil, as those products are very good at corrosion protection.

    If that doesn't solve the problem, you might want to consider shooting Wolf/Tula/Barnaul noncorrosive for a while until you can store the rifle in a less humid environment.
     
  5. Sam Cade

    Sam Cade Member

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    After you shoot flush the bore with WATER.

    Pop of the cover, pull the bolt and carrier and run plenty of water from the breech end out the muzzle, blow or patch dry.
    Give it a shot of WD-40, also from the breech end. The W.D stands for Water Displacer.
    THEN clean and lube as normal.
     
  6. sv51macross

    sv51macross Member

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    Alright, will do. I didn't think that the salts wouldn't be carried out by the rem oil.
     
  7. briansmithwins

    briansmithwins Member

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    Unfortunately, salts don't dissolve in oil very well.

    I just use soapy water on all the areas that get gas fouling on them. Dry, then oil with a good gun oil. I live in Oregon and have shot more than 1k of corrosive Yugo M67, including in the rain. No rust problems.

    BSW
     
  8. 06

    06 Member

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    If you want to get really "rambunctious" take the barrel off the furniture, grab your drill motor, put the end into a pot of very hot soapy water and let the cleaning commence. A few passes with the rotating wet brush will get that coroding crap out. Not a bad way to clean any or all your shooters.
     
  9. sv51macross

    sv51macross Member

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    So here's another question, how bad is a K-var nylon bristled bore brush on the unlined steel?
     
  10. briansmithwins

    briansmithwins Member

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    You're going to have your work cut out for you to wear out a steel barrel with a nylon brush.

    More of a danger is dinging or wearing out the crown using the AK steel rod. Which is why I like to use pull-thru cleaners in rifles I can't rod from the breech.

    Like this one: http://www.supplydump.com/image/cache/data/ak74cleaning-750x750.jpg

    BSW
     
  11. Sky

    Sky Member

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    http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=545607 is a test on lubes easy to read and interesting.

    http://www.grantcunningham.com/lubricants101.html

    From every test and study I have seen Rem Oil is not a very good anti corrosion/rust product.

    I use Windex for the barrel (on my sks with corrosive ammo which is almost all I shoot) and Hop#9 sometimes for copper removal. After cleaning I use Breakfree CLP for a lube and have not had any problems in South Texas 40 minutes from the gulf. Main thing as said by many is get the salt out of the barrel. Water works but I carry a small bottle of Windex and do not have to look for a water source after shooting.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2011
  12. ColtPythonElite

    ColtPythonElite Member

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    I have a couple of milsurps that I have owned for over 2 decades. Both have been shot thousands of times using corrosive ammo. Each were cleaned with conventional cleaning solvents. Neither have any rust at all.....I never heard of cleaning with water until I got the internet...However, I will agree that it will do a fantastic job.

    About Rem Oil...I've been using it about 20 years and have had zero rust trouble. I use it on everything from my 40 buck singleshot up to my NIB investment pieces. I have also used it for more than just guns sitting in the safe. My pet hunting rifle has seen plenty of rainy days hanging on a hook above my treestand. I have never had so much as a spot of rust on it.
     
  13. briansmithwins

    briansmithwins Member

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    Just curious, ColtPythonElite, what's the climate like where you live?

    BSW
     
  14. ColtPythonElite

    ColtPythonElite Member

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    I have it all....snow, rain, heat, humidity....Right now, it is hot and humid.

    For years my guns were kept in a mix of hard cases, soft cases, and a wooden gun cabinet. Less than 5 years ago, I bought a safe. FWIW, I have only had a dehumidifier in it for a few months.
     
  15. Gordon_Freeman

    Gordon_Freeman Member

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    I just got finished reading a similar thread on another forum. I thought it was interesting that no military ever suggested using water after shooting corrosive ammo. They used stuff like ballistol.
    I think the main problem is that you store the gun in a humid garage. I know my garage gets extremely humid.
    I've read so many different ways that you have to clean after corrosive ammo that I won't ever shoot corrosive.

    Edit: I guess whoever posted that about the military cleaning method was wrong. Thanks for pointing that out.
    I'll still avoid corrosive ammo.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2011
  16. briansmithwins

    briansmithwins Member

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    The alkaline solution from the Sov manual is water with stuff dissolved in it.

    Cleaning section starts around page 70 of the PDF: https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...2ItYjBlZTNiNDc5NWE0&hl=en_US&authkey=CLT79qIH

    BSW
     
  17. sv51macross

    sv51macross Member

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    Thanks for the input, guys. Methinks in the morning I'll get some window cleaner, soak the brush in it, and give the bore a good scrubbing, then pour the hot water down the chamber, then patch with oil.
     
  18. bigedp51

    bigedp51 member

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    After shooting corrosive Mk.7 ammunition the British simply pored at least one pint of boiling water down the bore. After the hot water evaporated a pull through (snake) with an oiled rag was pulled through the bore.

    The British troops did not and were not allowed to remove any copper from the bore as this was done by armourers or with special permission from a senior NCO. (No copper solvents, no Butch's Bore Shine, no Ed's Red etc)

    [​IMG]

    If you read the old books about African safaris ALL the hunters used boiling water after shooting corrosive ammunition and then the bores were oiled. (Windex wasn't invented yet to add to the myths) :rolleyes:

    My Yugo 59/66 SKS does not have a chrome bore, and it fires corrosive ammunition. It is cleaned with soapy water (Dish washing soap) and then filled with foam bore cleaner. (Barrel and gas tubes) A film of foam bore cleaner may be left in the bore as protection.

    Below, Enfield bore after application of foam bore cleaner and "NO" scrubbing with a bore brush.
    (A pitted frosted bore will "eat" a copper bore brush and give false reading of copper in the bore) ;)

    [​IMG]

    For long term storage RIG grease or other preservation type oils work well.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2011
  19. Ridgerunner665

    Ridgerunner665 Member

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  20. JustinJ

    JustinJ Member

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    Use a water based cleaner on the barrel. An ammonia based window cleaner is good bc it will dissolve copper and salts both. Be 110% sure all water is displaced afterwards though. I spray the hell out of my AK74 with CLP or Rem Oil to ensure no water remains in any nooks and crannys and then i wipe off all the excess. For storage though just leave it in until your ready to shoot. For my barrel though i'm a big fan of the Otis Bore Cleaner/Preservative.
     
  21. Sam Cade

    Sam Cade Member

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    That is why I recommended the squirt of WD-40. Its a rare occasion that you get to use it for its intended purpose.
     
  22. wally

    wally Member

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    After shooting corrosive 5.45x39 through my Saiga I just flush it with a garden hose (its very hot from solar heating!, let dry in the sun while I put other stuff away and then clean normally with Hoppes #9 and lube with CLP.

    But since its an AK a little rust won't hurt anything! Buy some silica gel drying agent and put it in the case with the rifle when stored in the garage. Reactive the gel in the oven when the color indicate says its "full".

    Yeah, but AKs rod from the breech just fine if you have a long enough rod -- the basic 3-piece from Academy is long enough.
     
  23. JustinJ

    JustinJ Member

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    Rinsing just the barrel is by no means sufficient. If anybody hasn't been washing their gas tubes after corrosive ammo, pull it off and look inside. You'll be unpleasantly surprised.
     
  24. Al Thompson

    Al Thompson Moderator Staff Member

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    Gordon, IIRC, the old RBC (rifle bore cleaner) was water based. Hatcher's Notebook has a chapter on corrosion that is interesting reading. :)
     
  25. Vaarok

    Vaarok Member

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    WD-40 should be followed by a chaser or real oil, since it's simply a water displacer, and evaporates quick, leaving behind a film of stuff that can start rust anew.

    If you're storing in a garage, I'd almost suggest taking a patch and coating it in some axle grease, and run that down through the bore for a heavy protective coat.
     
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