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Barrel vs Bullet Max/Working OAL/COL for Reference

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by LiveLife, Mar 3, 2019.

  1. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    This thread is dedicated to Walkalong and those who have to load for barrels with short leade. I share your pain as I also load for barrels with short leade. :(

    Since factory and aftermarket barrel rifling and leade length vs OAL/COL is often inquired, I decided to start a new thread to list maximum OAL for each barrel tested and recommend working OAL for each bullet type to use as reference. I hope this thread helps with load development for barrels with shorter leade and specific bullet types listed.

    To help other members, you can participate by listing the max and working OAL for the pistol, barrel, magazine and bullet used.

    NOTE: I have many other bullet types than listed here. If you want additional bullets tested, let me know and I will test them. All measurements made with Frankford Arsenal dial calipers verified with Vermont pin gages - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ks-for-digital-calibers.821135/#post-10545265
    • Berry's 115/124 gr RN - Regular plated Round Nose, Solid Base
    • Berry's 115/124 gr HBRN-TP - Hollow Base Round Nose (Thicker Plated)
    • Hornady 115/124 gr HAP - Hornady Action Pistol (XTP without expansion cuts)
    • HSM 115/124 gr RN - Hunting Shack Munitions Plated Round Nose
    • MBC 124 gr RN Hi-Tek - Missouri Bullet Company Hi-Tek2 Coated Round Nose
    • PowerBond 115/124 gr RN - Power Bond Plated Round Nose
    • Rainier 115/124 gr RN - Ranier Plated Round Nose
    • RMR 115/124/147 gr FMJ - Rocky Mountain Reloading In-House Full Metal Jacket
    • RMR 115/124 gr FP MW- RMR In-house Flat Point Match Winner
    • RMR 115/124 gr JHP MPR - RMR Jacketed Hollow Point, Multi Purpose Round
    • Speer 115/125 gr TMJ - Speer Total Metal Jacket (Thicker Plated)
    • Winchester 115 gr FMJ - Winchester Full Metal Jacket
    • X-Treme 115/124 gr RN - X-Treme Plated Round Nose
    • Zero 115 gr FMJ - Zero Full Metal Jacket
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2019
  2. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    771249-81219608a354c437f97edb080890291c.jpg 771250-53a8bb52803b8c0eae61ff95e3e4d5b2.jpg
    KKM 40-9 stainless steel conversion barrel for Glock 22 with 6 land/groove rifling and cut freebore to allow longer than SAAMI max OAL (I was thinking of shooting 9mm Major for USPSA with this barrel)

    Glock 22, KKM 40-9 conversion barrel, factory G17 magazine (Max OAL listed. Recommend 1.050" for 95 gr FMJ, 1.130" for 115 gr FMJ/RN and 1.135"-1.145" for 124 gr FMJ/RN but use the OAL that works with your barrel without compressing powder charge):
    • RMR 95 gr FMJ: 1.150"
    • Berry's 115 gr RN: 1.169"
    • Berry's 115 gr HBRN-TP: 1.169"
    • Hornady 115 gr HAP: 1.145"
    • HSM 115 gr RN: 1.169"
    • PowerBond 115 gr RN: 1.169"
    • Rainier 115 gr RN: 1.169"
    • RMR 115 gr FMJ: 1.169"
    • RMR 115 gr FP MW: 1.155"
    • RMR 115 gr JHP Mini MPR: 1.140"
    • Speer 115 gr TMJ: 1.169"
    • Winchester 115 gr FMJ: 1.169"
    • X-Treme 115 gr RN: 1.169"
    • Zero 115 gr FMJ: 1.169"
    • Berry's 124 gr RN: 1.169"
    • Berry's 124 gr HBRN-TP: 1.169"
    • Hornady 125 gr HAP: 1.125"
    • HSM 124 gr RN: 1.169"
    • MBC 124 gr RN Hi-Tek: 1.110"
    • PowerBond 124 gr RN: 1.169"
    • Rainier 124 gr RN: 1.169"
    • RMR 124 gr FMJ: 1.169"
    • RMR 124 gr FP MW: 1.150"
    • RMR 124 gr JHP MPR: 1.115"
    • Speer 124 gr TMJ: 1.169"
    • X-Treme 124 gr RN: 1.169"
    • RMR 147 gr FMJ: 1.169"
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2019
  3. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    full&d=1551634161.jpg full&d=1551634161.jpg
    M&P Shield factory 9mm barrel with 5 land/groove rifling and wide land width almost twice that of KKM barrel with shorter leade length.

    M&P Shield 9mm, factory barrel, factory magazine (Max OAL listed. Recommend 1.050" for 95 gr FMJ, 1.130" for 115 gr FMJ/RN and 1.135"-1.145" for 124 gr FMJ/RN but use the OAL that works with your barrel without compressing powder charge):
    • RMR 95 gr FMJ: 1.135"
    • Berry's 115 gr RN: 1.169"
    • Berry's 115 gr HBRN-TP: 1.169"
    • Hornady 115 gr HAP: 1.130"
    • HSM 115 gr RN: 1.169"
    • PowerBond 115 gr RN: 1.169"
    • Rainier 115 gr RN: 1.169"
    • RMR 115 gr FMJ: 1.169"
    • RMR 115 gr FP MW: 1.145"
    • RMR 115 gr JHP Mini MPR: 1.110"
    • Speer 115 gr TMJ: 1.169"
    • Winchester 115 gr FMJ: 1.169"
    • X-Treme 115 gr RN: 1.169"
    • Zero 115 gr FMJ: 1.169"
    • Berry's 124 gr RN: 1.169"
    • Berry's 124 gr HBRN-TP: 1.169"
    • Hornady 125 gr HAP: 1.120"
    • HSM 124 gr RN: 1.169"
    • MBC 124 gr RN Hi-Tek: 1.080"
    • PowerBond 124 gr RN: 1.169"
    • Rainier 124 gr RN: 1.169"
    • RMR 124 gr FMJ: 1.169"
    • RMR 124 gr FP MW: 1.135"
    • RMR 124 gr JHP MPR: 1.105"
    • Speer 124 gr TMJ: 1.169"
    • X-Treme 124 gr RN: 1.169"
    • RMR 147 gr FMJ: 1.160"
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2019
  4. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    771248-50e304fc739372c6f1796ef4d0734ade.jpg 771247-e9b6a78ec5f6cdb77747b7d4e4bb05c9.jpg 770170-44b0abefd497792e7099650c87e8ce5b.jpg
    Tactical Kinetics 40-9 Black Nitride conversion barrel for Glock 22 with 6 land/groove rifling and shorter leade than KKM/Shield 9mm. Land width is wider than KKM with a groove/channel along the center of each rifling.

    Glock 22, Tactical Kinetics 40-9 conversion barrel, factory G17 magazine (Max OAL listed. Recommend 1.050" for 95 gr FMJ, 1.130" for 115 gr FMJ/RN and 1.135"-1.145" for 124 gr FMJ/RN but use the OAL that works with your barrel without compressing powder charge):
    • RMR 95 gr FMJ: 1.090"
    • Berry's 115 gr RN: 1.169"
    • Berry's 115 gr HBRN-TP: 1.169"
    • Hornady 115 gr HAP: 1.085"
    • HSM 115 gr RN: 1.169"
    • PowerBond 115 gr RN: 1.169"
    • RMR 115 gr FMJ: 1.140"
    • RMR 115 gr FP MW: 1.095"
    • RMR 115 gr JHP Mini MPR: 1.070"
    • Speer 115 gr TMJ: 1.169"
    • Winchester 115 gr FMJ: 1.135"
    • Zero 115 gr FMJ: 1.135"
    • Berry's 124 gr RN: 1.169"
    • Berry's 124 gr HBRN-TP: 1.169"
    • Hornady 125 gr HAP: 1.070"
    • HSM 124 gr RN: 1.169"
    • MBC 124 gr RN Hi-Tek: 1.050"
    • PowerBond 124 gr RN: 1.169"
    • RMR 124 gr FMJ: 1.130"
    • RMR 124 gr FP MW: 1.085"
    • RMR 124 gr JHP MPR: 1.055"
    • Speer 124 gr TMJ: 1.165"
    • RMR 147 gr FMJ: 1.115"
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2019
  5. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    771254-467f144aad2cb18f66a2624aac9541cf.jpg 771253-d3c302bece52260124094e8322385b32.jpg
    Lone Wolf 40-9 stainless steel conversion barrel for Glock 23 with 6 land/groove rifling and shorter leade than KKM/Shield 9mm/Tactical Kinetics.

    Glock 23, Lone Wolf 40-9 conversion barrel, factory G17 magazine (Max OAL listed. Recommend 1.050" for 95 gr FMJ, 1.130" for 115 gr FMJ/RN and 1.135"-1.145" for 124 gr FMJ/RN but use the OAL that works with your barrel without compressing powder charge):
    • RMR 95 gr FMJ: 1.050"
    • Berry's 115 gr RN: 1.169"
    • Berry's 115 gr HBRN-TP: 1.169"
    • Hornady 115 gr HAP: 1.070"
    • HSM 115 gr RN: 1.165"
    • PowerBond 115 gr RN: 1.160"
    • RMR 115 gr FMJ: 1.130"
    • RMR 115 gr FP MW: 1.085"
    • RMR 115 gr JHP Mini MPR: 1.060"
    • Speer 115 gr TMJ: 1.169"
    • Winchester 115 gr FMJ: 1.130"
    • Zero 115 gr FMJ: 1.125"
    • Berry's 124 gr RN: 1.169"
    • Berry's 124 gr HBRN-TP: 1.169"
    • Hornady 125 gr HAP: 1.045"
    • HSM 124 gr RN: 1.155"
    • MBC 124 gr RN Hi-Tek: 1.040"
    • PowerBond 124 gr RN: 1.160"
    • RMR 124 gr FMJ: 1.120"
    • RMR 124 gr FP MW: 1.075"
    • RMR 124 gr JHP MPR: 1.040"
    • Speer 124 gr TMJ: 1.155"
    • RMR 147 gr FMJ: 1.108"
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2019
  6. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    lol, I don't think that has ever bitten me in the butt. I made the thread to help those who had been. :)
     
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  7. Chuck R.

    Chuck R. Member

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    Appreciate the effort!

    I got bit......trying to squeeze RMR 147 FMJs into a CZ75 "Accu-Shadow"...

    Some things just aren't meant to be. Had to seat them so deep they bulged a number of cases.
     
    Walkalong likes this.
  8. kidneyboy

    kidneyboy Member

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    Care to share how you got those great pics of the insides of barrels?
     
  9. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    I mounted my Motorola G5 cellphone on a tripod, set camera setting to AUTO, set zoom to 2.0X and used natural lighting against painted wall while moving the barrels back and forth with my hand to focus on different areas to highlight chamber/leade/rifling transitions.
     
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  10. RMH

    RMH Member

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    I load for 3 different 9mm. I don't have a lot of data but I will add what I have. I hope this helps.

    Taurus PT-809 4" barrel 1:9 twist

    Bullet Max Working
    RMR 124gr FMJ-FN 1.090 1.080
    RMR 124gr RN P Hardcore 1.050 1.040
    RMR 124gr MPR 1.040 1.030
    Xtreme 135gr RNFP 1.145 1.135
    Berry's 124gr HBFP 1.040 1.030
    Berry's 124gr HBRN-TP 1.155 1.145

    Taurus PT-111 G2

    RMR 124gr MPR 1.085 1.070
    Berry's 124gr HBFP 1.070 1.060
    Xtreme 135gr RNFP 1.185 1.160

    Canik TP9SFX

    RMR 124gr MPR 1.090 1.070
    Berry's 124gr HBFP 1.070 1.060
    Xtreme 135gr RNFP 1.180 1.160 Mag Restriction
     
  11. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    Thank you!
     
  12. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    Tested additional bullets.

    Longdayjake from RMR mentioned current production of in-house jacketed bullets are different from initial production run to make them more consistent (For one, they have greater copper jacket fold over lead base) and 124 gr FP MW nose profile/ogive must have changed too as max OAL changed from previous batch of bullets I have (New production 124 gr FP MW can be loaded longer). FYI, 115 gr FP MW nose profile bullets listed on previous posts are current production - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/thoughts-on-rmr-bullets.847718/#post-11054658


    KKM Glock 40-9 conversion:
    • MBC 124 gr CN Hi-Tek (Cone 9): 1.169"
    • Montana Gold 95 gr JHP: 1.100"
    • Precision Delta 124 gr JHP: 1.155"
    • Remington 124 gr FMJ: 1.169"
    • RMR 124 gr FP MW: 1.150"
    • RMR 135 gr FP MW: 1.130"
    • RMR 147 gr FP MW: 1.135"
    • Speer 124 gr Gold Dot HP: 1.169"
    • X-Treme 100 gr RNFP: 1.100"

    S&W M&P Shield 9mm:
    • MBC 124 gr CN Hi-Tek (Cone 9): 1.165"
    • Montana Gold 95 gr JHP: 1.090"
    • Precision Delta 124 gr JHP: 1.135"
    • Remington 124 gr FMJ: 1.169"
    • RMR 124 gr FP MW: 1.140"
    • RMR 135 gr FP MW: 1.115"
    • RMR 147 gr FP MW: 1.130"
    • Speer 124 gr Gold Dot HP: 1.169"
    • X-Treme 100 gr RNFP: 1.100"

    Tactical Kinetics Glock 40-9 conversion:
    • MBC 124 gr CN Hi-Tek (Cone 9): 1.115"
    • Montana Gold 95 gr JHP: 1.040"
    • Precision Delta 124 gr JHP: 1.085"
    • Remington 124 gr FMJ: 1.169"
    • RMR 124 gr FP MW: 1.095"
    • RMR 135 gr FP MW: 1.060"
    • RMR 147 gr FP MW: 1.075"
    • Speer 124 gr Gold Dot HP: 1.130"
    • X-Treme 100 gr RNFP: 1.085"

    Lone Wolf Glock 40-9 conversion:
    • MBC 124 gr CN Hi-Tek (Cone 9): 1.105"
    • Montana Gold 95 gr JHP: 1.030"
    • Precision Delta 124 gr JHP: 1.080"
    • Remington 124 gr FMJ: 1.169"
    • RMR 124 gr FP MW: 1.085"
    • RMR 135 gr FP MW: 1.055"
    • RMR 147 gr FP MW: 1.065"
    • Speer 124 gr Gold Dot HP: 1.130"
    • X-Treme 100 gr RNFP: 1.075"
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
  13. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    Sigh, so I wonder which ones I have, cause I sure like them........
     
  14. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    If they have larger copper fold over lead base (.074" vs .064"), you have the newer production bullets.

    I am planning to do an old vs new RMR in-house bullet comparison thread with range testing to see if efforts made by RMR to make their in-house bullets more consistent translates to smaller groups.

    RMR 124 gr FP Match Winner: Older production on the left with ~.064" copper fold over lead base and newer production on the right with ~.074" copper fold over lead base.

    [​IMG]
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
  15. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    Mine fold over in the neighborhood of .060, but I could tell which ones they were with the naked eye. How about an upright pic of the two? (Pic taken from the side) Bullet the same, just a longer jacket?
     
  16. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    I thought Jake talked about increasing copper jacket fold over lead base to improve consistency and accuracy. He could have incrementally increased the fold over amount over time.
     
  17. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    To do that you either change the bullet shape (Bad thing as they shoot great), or get longer jackets, or draw the same jacket longer/thinner, which would also affect the bullet making it different from the ones that made the rep for being a great bullet. So I wonder what was changed. Might be better than the original, dunno, but it makes me curious anytime something is changed.
     
  18. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    Maybe Jake could better explain what were done to the bullets and what the intended goals were.

    In the pending old vs new bullet thread, I will compare nose profile and bullet base length, etc. along with comparison range tests (Hopefully on the prototype machine pistol rest) to see if new bullets are more accurate.
     
  19. longdayjake

    longdayjake Member

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    The difference is that we use two different machines to make them. While the cores and the dies are the same, the machines make a slightly different bullet. The slightly longer bullet you will notice has slightly rounded edges on the nose and the base. We try to keep it on one machine to keep it consistent, but we’ve had situations where one machine has a major breakdown and we still have orders to fill so we have to make them on the other machine. But for a while we’ve been able to make them on the same machine so they have been pretty consistent for a while now.

    We do prefer to have as much fold over as possible as it does seem to reduce or eliminate comp leading. The amount of fold over may vary from lot to lot because as tooling wears the jackets get cut at different spots. But we always keep the fold over at a certain level and change the tooling when it gets too small.
     
  20. longdayjake

    longdayjake Member

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    Accuracy should be similar or identical between the two slightly different bullets. We’ve tested the crap out of them and can find no perceivable difference in accuracy.
     
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  21. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    Jake, thank you for the clarification.
     
  22. Doublehelix

    Doublehelix Member

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    RMR 124 gr. JHP (MPR) rounds:

    SIG P226 Legion SAO:
    1.150"

    HK VP9:
    1.08"

    SIG P938:
    1.06"

    SIG P320 X-5:
    1.10"

    I just bought a Bar-Sto barrel for the P320 X-5, so it will be interesting to see where it fits in with these bullets.
     
  23. Doublehelix

    Doublehelix Member

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    As mentioned, I just got a Bar-Sto barrel for my SIG P320 X-Five. Man! None of my cartridges fit!!! Short leade for sure!

    SIG Bar-Sto Match 5" Barrel for SIG P320 X5:

    RMR 124 gr. JHP MPR = 1.03"
    RMR 147 gr. FP MW = 1.04"

    What the heck!!! These are SHORT!!!

    For the stock barrel in this gun, I was at 1.10" for the 124 gr.

    I tried plunking some of the new Federal Syntech 150 gr. Action Pistol rounds, and they plunk fine at 1.110" in that same Bar-Sto barrel.
     
  24. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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  25. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    Thank you Walkalong.

    And Happy Easter everyone!

    Thanks, that shows the lengths of leade in 92FS and Hi Power barrels.

    Working OAL for RMR 124 gr MPR:
    • 1.150" - SIG P226 Legion SAO
    • 1.125" - Beretta 92FS/Hi Power Mark 2
    • 1.115" - KKM (40-9mm Glock 22)
    • 1.08" - HK VP9/Springfield Armory 1911
    • 1.105" - M&P Shield
    • 1.10" - SIG P320 X-5
    • 1.07" - Taurus PT-111 G2/Canik TP9SFX
    • 1.06" - SIG P938
    • 1.055" - Tactical Kinetics (40-9mm Glock 22)
    • 1.04" - Lone Wolf (40-9mm Glock 23)
    • 1.03" - Bar-Sto (SIG P320 X5)/Taurus PT-809
     
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