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BATF wants to talk to me

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by mm1ut1, Feb 24, 2009.

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  1. mm1ut1

    mm1ut1 Member

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    Dealer told me yesterday the BATF was asking questions about me because I've bought a lot (2-3/mo for the last year) of guns. He said they would contact me soon. No sign of any black vans or helos yet. Anyone have this happen to you? I'm not a dealer or C&R holder. My wife is having visions of swat teams crashing down the doors and is really upset. Think they would have better things to do than harrass a law abiding citizen. Think I'll ask them if they are hiring......
     
  2. Ohio Gun Guy

    Ohio Gun Guy Member

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    Big brother is knocking.

    Its just my, non-lawer / internet opinion, but they are probably looking to see if you are running a firearms business without an FFL. They may be looking to see if you are keeping these guns (Not reselling them for profit)

    I personally, do not like these "Rules" they set out as they are not well defined, and they dont want them to be.
     
  3. Bill2e

    Bill2e Member

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    How would they know unless you bought multiple handguns within a two weak period?

    That being said, they probably want to make sure your not straw purchasing guns.
     
  4. Animal Mother

    Animal Mother Member

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    I'll be willing to make a small wager that you've bought more than one handgun within a period of five days. Totally legal of course, but big brother gets their knickers in a twist when you do that.

     
  5. Deanimator

    Deanimator Member

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    Get a lawyer, YESTERDAY.

    They have such a history of lying that they once made an official training video on how to lie under oath in court about the accuracy of the NFA record keeping system.
     
  6. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

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    They may have audited the FFL's bound book as part of a regular audit.

    I'm not sure that they can legally pull names from that and go question those folks.

    Lawyer time if they actually call you.

    But, since the gun store guy is the only person you've heard from I'd wait.

    In the meantime, I wouldn't do business with that particular gun store. How well do you know the guy?

    You sure HE isn't the one calling ATF about YOU? (not a lawyer etc etc)
     
  7. mm1ut1

    mm1ut1 Member

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    Might have bought two handguns in the same two week period, a Ruger Mk2 and a S&W 1917. Not exactly gang banger material. Still have the Mk2, but sold the S&W. Since I always go through my dealer(buying and selling) I can hardly be accused of being a straw gun purchaser. I was there when the agent was doing the folowup at my dealer. She was pretty young so maybe she's just not been exposed to the enthusists like me who shoot in a lot of different types of matches, ie bullseye, practical pistol, high power rifle, CMP matches, et cet. I also like to try different milsurp rifles and if they don't strike a cord I sell them via my dealer. We'll see......:rolleyes:
     
  8. mm1ut1

    mm1ut1 Member

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    Dealer is a great guy. He likes his transfer fees!
     
  9. sernv99

    sernv99 Member

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    you shouldn't make assumptions without knowing all the facts. Conspiracy theorists abound around here.:rolleyes:
     
  10. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

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    If you bought 2 within 5 business days of each other you got turned in :)



    it happens often enough where a dealer is suspicious and makes a call. It's hardly unusual or "conspiracy theory".

    I've heard of quite a bit lately here in Texas. ATF is really looking close at dealers and their transactions here because of the border business going on.
     
  11. sernv99

    sernv99 Member

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    "They have such a history of lying that they once made an official training video on how to lie under oath in court about the accuracy of the NFA record keeping system."

    so the ATF makes an official training video on how to lie under oath under the pretense that it would probably be easily leaked to the public thereby exposing this tactic that they use? Hmmm, interesting.:rolleyes:...what's next, CIA making a training video on how to waterboard prisoners and letting it freely float around the CIA with the probable chance it would be leaked to the public and media?? Think before you type, because your logic doesn't add up. Do you really think ATF would make such a training video without thinking about the 100% chance that it would eventually be leaked to the public/media??
     
  12. MachIVshooter

    MachIVshooter Member

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    Something isn't right here. I'm gonna wait for the rest of the story.
     
  13. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

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  14. Duke of Doubt

    Duke of Doubt member

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    I won't give the OP specific advice on this thread, other than to contact a lawyer.

    Many of the rest of you know my thoughts on these matters as a general thing. I like guns, I like obtaining guns, and I like swapping guns. Once in awhile I'll sell a gun from my collection for money, to a pawnbroker or gun store. In my opinion, enforcement action against unlicensed dealing, and abuse of C&R licenses, has been incredibly lax for over a decade. Where you stand on this issue depends to some extent on where you sit. However, facts are facts, and enforcement action has long been overdue. Most "violators" are not "powderhorns" selling guns to bangers, if I had to guess. If I had to guess, I'd guess that most "violators" are ordinary folks who tend to brush off legal concerns as "lawyer speak" and don't see any harm in buying and selling guns for profit without a license. I am not among them.
     
  15. sernv99

    sernv99 Member

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    oh my bad, I didn't know JPFO was the mouthpiece for all gun right organizations and whatever they post is what gun owners should believe.:rolleyes:

    you ever heard of Curveball and the Iraq war?? If not, read up on it because what you have is a "Curveball".
     
  16. chuckusaret

    chuckusaret member

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    It is no different than buying and selling cars in Florida. Florida law states that any person, firm partnership, or corporation that buys, sells, offers for sale, displays for sale or deals in three or more motor vehicles in any 12-month period is presumed to be a motor vehicle dealer and must have an appropriate license issued by the State.

    If you are not a dealer, then you must provide proof as to why you transfered so many vehicles.

    The Dept of Motor Vehicles report the title xfers same as the FFL reports the gun xfers.

    I received a letter from them because of large ammo buys----I bought for a group of shooters in an effort to save a buck or two. Was no big hassle by them, just a question that I answered and that was it.....Hopefully.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2009
  17. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

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    Post when you have actually seen the video.
    You clearly have not.



    Is this the new THR debating strategy? I've seen it several times this week.

    People post asking for evidence since they are convinced such evidence doesn't exist, then when they learn that it DOES exist they start to try to discredit it without even looking at it.

    That's not a very useful strategy I have to say..... If you take time to look at and understand the evidence and have an argument about why it's wrong, that's good debating. Immediately going to the "well that can't be right" tact without even looking into it makes you seem, let's say, "not high road".
     
  18. FM12

    FM12 Member

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    Yeah, go ahead and get a lawyer, that'll show you have nothing to hide.
     
  19. 2ndAmFan

    2ndAmFan Member

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    Enforcement has been very lax for years, and according to several sources I read at the time, the Clinton administration specifically ordered BATF to lighten up on enforcement in order to justify enacting more restrictive gun ownership laws. I have no idea if that's true, and I don't want to believe it because the implications are way beyond frightening.
    Straw purchasers in the US are supplying guns to drug cartels in Mexico, and with all the violence down there a lot of federal attention is being focused on gun purchasers in the Southwestern US, and probably elsewhere as well. I suspect you were flagged to be investigated because you buy a lot of guns and they want to make sure you aren't selling them to people who can't legally obtain them. I think the fact you always go through a licensed dealer should put you in the clear.
     
  20. esquare

    esquare Member

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    What what are the BATFE limits on gun transfers per year? Or, is it based on if you make a profit? The reason I'm asking is because it seems that if you sell anything right now, you'll fetch more than what you paid for if you bought it a few years ago. I also remember a post of a guy selling off most of his life's collection over a couple of weeks - is that illegal, and if so, why should it be?
     
  21. Duke of Doubt

    Duke of Doubt member

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    esquare: "What what are the BATFE limits on gun transfers per year? Or, is it based on if you make a profit? The reason I'm asking is because it seems that if you sell anything right now, you'll fetch more than what you paid for if you bought it a few years ago. I also remember a post of a guy selling off most of his life's collection over a couple of weeks - is that illegal, and if so, why should it be?"

    It's a subjective test, and most good lawyers hate those, but regularly have to address them in court. Things like presumed intent, and all that. Disposing of a collection generally isn't a problem, but if you've followed some of my posts in recent weeks, you'll notice that rather than SELL a bunch of appreciated autoloading firearms in recent months for a tidy cash profit, generally I've TRADED them for valuable but un-appreciated guns in which I've become interested. Less likely to be construed as dealing.
     
  22. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

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    If you are not 100% certain in ANYTHING you do, talking to an attorney is never a bad thing.

    Just talking to an attorney is hardly an admission of guilt. These day's you're taking a risk by just making it up as you go.

    What's the harm in spending 30 minutes with a lawyer to make sure you are covered before you talk to an LE agency?
    You don't have to walk through the front door of ATF's office with 9 guys in suits.......
     
  23. bannockburn

    bannockburn Member

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    Texas Rifleman

    I would most definitely agree. A brief advisory consult with an attorney (hopefully versed in these matters), would be my first move. The visit should be free. If you decide to go this route, be prepared to ante up your attorney's retainer fee. At $200 to $250 an hour, it's certainly not cheap, but I would rather spend the money up front than trying to get hold of my attorney if things go south in a hurry (no pun intended to our southern neighbors).
     
  24. waterhouse

    waterhouse Member

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    Perhaps they went to check check the dealer's records. Many dealers store the 4473s alphabetically. When you flip through the files and a guy has 20 or 30 4473s in a row, they might question that.

    A stranger could pick out my top 10 customers (by volume) in less than an hour just by flipping through the filing cabinet.
     
  25. LaEscopeta

    LaEscopeta Member

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    Neither will I.

    I don’t know but I’m guessing it is one of those 2 probabilities.

    Well, they may or may not have better things to do, but I’m pretty sure they don’t know if you are a law abiding citizen or not. Yet.

    As stated above, there are several different things that could be going on. One is they have their knickers in a twist and are looking to harass and entrap you. Another possibility is they are running down a lead. Law enforcement gets lots of leads for lots of different sources, and they spend a lot of their time checking them out. The vast majority of leads come up dry and law enforcement is used to this. But they have to run down all the leads to find out which ones have criminals at the end of them.

    Please keep us posted as to the outcome.
     
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