CentralTexas
Member
M-Rex said:
I noticed your sig line about being 100% pro police & against the Libertarian party, that saves me the time from having to ask why....
CT
BATFE Restoration of 2A rights
- Thread starter Bartholomew Roberts
- Start date
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I noticed your sig line about being 100% pro police & against the Libertarian party, that saves me the time from having to ask why....
CT
ajax
Member
Several people have said that once time is served that these men should have their rights back. In few instances I could accept this concept, but if anyone in here is trying to say that convicted rapist murderers or such deserve their rights back you need slapped in the frickin head.
By the way. I'm not referring to anyone convicted then found innocent of a crime.
By the way. I'm not referring to anyone convicted then found innocent of a crime.CentralTexas
Member
armoredman said:
Actually file for divorce with kids, Wifes lawyer says claim abuse and violence as method to get child custody. Without a conviction, many places will take your guns. Restraining orders, allegations of abuse etc.
CT
What "oldfart" said + 1
"oldfart":
I agree completely. We need better (more accurate) prosecution, longer terms for genuine CRIME, and for those criminals which are truly nuts (child rapists for example) don't EVER let them out. They aren't going to change, and the children can NOT protect themselves--WE have to protect them. Recall this lunatic judge gave the child raper 3 months?! Goodness!
Have a great day all; I enjoyed the conversation, but now I have to go to work.
Doc2005
"oldfart":
I agree completely. We need better (more accurate) prosecution, longer terms for genuine CRIME, and for those criminals which are truly nuts (child rapists for example) don't EVER let them out. They aren't going to change, and the children can NOT protect themselves--WE have to protect them. Recall this lunatic judge gave the child raper 3 months?! Goodness!
Have a great day all; I enjoyed the conversation, but now I have to go to work.
Doc2005
Bartholomew Roberts
Member
So you support the removal of firearms privileges for life for all of the reasons listed in the prohibited persons listing, including post-fact misdemeanor domestic violence convictions?
Not just support the general concept; but support the concept that these people should not even be able to appeal in certain extraordinary circumstances, even when they pay the costs of the appeal?
ARperson
Member
Crosshair said:
Exactly. If they are done serving their time, then their debt to society should be considered paid in full, and all rights restored. If they are deemed too dangerous to have their rights restored, then they shouldn't be released in the first place.
How our society can allow this perversion of justice to exist is beyond me.
Then slap away because I still stand by the notion that they are either perfectly "rehabilitated" and have served their debt OR they are still to dangerous to let loose on society. If the former, then why shouldn't their rights be restored in full? Well?
Th
CentralTexas
Member
ARperson,
Thanks for the dose of common sense. If a convicted felon/rapist is done with his sentence they are done with their sentence. If there is too high a recidivism rate let's change sentencing or how they are monitored.
The fact whether they can own a gunwill not stop a future crime if they are so inclined, any pointy object would work as a weapon.
CT
Thanks for the dose of common sense. If a convicted felon/rapist is done with his sentence they are done with their sentence. If there is too high a recidivism rate let's change sentencing or how they are monitored.
The fact whether they can own a gunwill not stop a future crime if they are so inclined, any pointy object would work as a weapon.
CT
So AR what your saying is that since they didn't get the prison sentence they should have or parolling due to possible over crowding and things like that we should also make another dumb a** mistake and allow them to own firearms legally. I'm really happy that your not the one making those decisions. I bet central texas wouldn't be talking that crap if it was your sister or wife or mother that was raped or murdered. I think this line of thinking should be called compounded stupidity!!
When someone cant get a gun legally, what do you wager the chances are they will purchase illegally?
Theres alot of dangerous jobs in America, and alot of un-safe places people have to live. An ex-criminal (stuck with bad jobs and living in low rent areas) has probly thought about all the bad things that can happen to someone.
The mans going to find a way to defend himself and, as you'll probly agree, he's not shy of breaking a few laws.
If the cops catch him with the weapon, many would say its good gun control in action.
...but was he going to use it?
Or did we just spend several hundred million dollars and ruin another mans life to capture a weapon that would have otherwise rusted away silently in a nightstand drawer?
Then wonder how many people were thinking of owning a gun that could have saved their life and property, but got turned off by the excessive paperwork and restrictions.
Personaly I think gun control, even in its most benevolent form, has endangerd many more lives than it will ever save.
Theres alot of dangerous jobs in America, and alot of un-safe places people have to live. An ex-criminal (stuck with bad jobs and living in low rent areas) has probly thought about all the bad things that can happen to someone.
The mans going to find a way to defend himself and, as you'll probly agree, he's not shy of breaking a few laws.
If the cops catch him with the weapon, many would say its good gun control in action.
...but was he going to use it?
Or did we just spend several hundred million dollars and ruin another mans life to capture a weapon that would have otherwise rusted away silently in a nightstand drawer?
Then wonder how many people were thinking of owning a gun that could have saved their life and property, but got turned off by the excessive paperwork and restrictions.
Personaly I think gun control, even in its most benevolent form, has endangerd many more lives than it will ever save.
M-Rex
member
CentralTexas said:
You gathered that all by yourself? How open-minded of you,
M-Rex
member
Bartholomew Roberts said:
It sounds like you are trying to put words in my mouth. Is there really any answer I could give you that would be satisfactory?
Bartholomew Roberts
Member
M-Rex said:
Well that is how I interpret your stance. I can't very well have a discussion with you if you are saying one thing and I am hearing another, can I? Is my interpretation correct?
Zundfolge
Member
If all felonies where actually bad crimes (which is what the original intent of "felony" laws was in the first place) than I'd agree with you, but there are just too damn many "procedural felonies" for minor crap on the books.M-Rex said:
Felon no longer means "bad person".
See my sig.
benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
Should someone who wrote a bad check to a Florida restaurant at age 18 be barred for the rest of their life from so much as touching a gun or a single round of ammunition?
If someone screws up in a nonviolent way and then lives an exemplary life for the next 30 years, I think it is immoral to say that they should NEVER have the opportunity to appeal to have their rights restored.
Have you ever, in your lifetime, driven more than 20 mph over the speed limit? If so, turn in your guns and promise never to touch one again...because that's a felony in many states. If you don't turn in your guns, but support barring someone else from gun ownership for life because they got caught and you didn't, you're being hypocritical, IMHO.
Ever driven within 1000 feet of any school property with a gun in your vehicle without a state-issued carry permit? Felony...
Restoration of RKBA for violent offenders at risk of redicivism is a red herring. The real issue is people who are NOT at risk of redicivism, and whose crimes do not merit a lifetime prohibition from touching a gun.
Carl N. Brown
Member
Two cases described to me by a local gun dealer FFL:
Man reported robbery of hotel where he was night clerk;
night clerks routinely listed on police reports as suspects;
cleared by investigation; served in military, honorable
discharge; started a farm and a gun shop. ATF informed
him he lied on his ATF form for the FFL because he was
in the system listed as a fugitive armed robbery suspect.
He got a videotape deposition by the investigating officer
that he was cleared as a suspect, but the record remained
and he has to keep a copy of the tape in his safe.
Two, another guy gets kicked out of ICS over a felony arrest:
a MISTAKEN IDENTITY arrest; he has to file an appeal with a
copy of the court record showing it was a mistaken identity
arrest, but the arrest record can not be expunged.
The system is broken and the review for restoration of rights
and correction of records needs to be funded.
Man reported robbery of hotel where he was night clerk;
night clerks routinely listed on police reports as suspects;
cleared by investigation; served in military, honorable
discharge; started a farm and a gun shop. ATF informed
him he lied on his ATF form for the FFL because he was
in the system listed as a fugitive armed robbery suspect.
He got a videotape deposition by the investigating officer
that he was cleared as a suspect, but the record remained
and he has to keep a copy of the tape in his safe.
Two, another guy gets kicked out of ICS over a felony arrest:
a MISTAKEN IDENTITY arrest; he has to file an appeal with a
copy of the court record showing it was a mistaken identity
arrest, but the arrest record can not be expunged.
The system is broken and the review for restoration of rights
and correction of records needs to be funded.
In Virginia, oral sex is a felony (there are exceptions for police officers in the course of an investigation).
M-REX, how do you feel about someone convicted of a felony where their only "crime" was engaging in oral sex with their spouse?
If felonies did not include such rediculous things, I might see where you're coming from.
M-REX, how do you feel about someone convicted of a felony where their only "crime" was engaging in oral sex with their spouse?
If felonies did not include such rediculous things, I might see where you're coming from.
M-Rex
member
Bartholomew Roberts said:
Your interpretation is going to be your interpretation regardless of what I say. You will pour into it whatever meaning you want. I don't want the NRA funding the 'restoration' of firearms rights for felons/criminals. Period. End of story.
M-Rex
member
Have you?benEzra said:
Can't do the time? Don't do the crime.
I'm sorry that I have to remind you that there ARE consequences for one's actions, and repercussions to one's poor decisions.
Responsibility is a bitch, isn't it?
Last edited:
Standing Wolf
Member in memoriam
I think I've spotted the crux of the matter.
M-Rex
member
Deleted...double post.
What your suggesting is there should be no limit to the time, no matter the crime.
You could be sentencing someone to a lifetime penalty over a traffic ticket or false arrest. Likewise you could be preventing a reformed criminal from returning to a normal life after he's done everything you asked of him.
Its ok because it hasnt happend to you?
Exactly how is that fair?
All the law prevents a felon from doing is getting his weapons from a legit dealer. There are easy ways around that problem.
Its not my fault if you cant keep a violent man in jail. Get your beauracratic noses out of my gun related business.
M-Rex
member
Maxwell said:
Well...then I guess he is not as 'reformed' as you might think, then is he?
Oh, ok...so you want to sell firearms to felons. My mistake.
M-Rex I think you are missing the point here. It is real EASY to become a felon. In fact the are lot's of laws on the books that very few people would even think that are illegal.
Oral sex in some states is still a felony. At least one state(GA) an umarried cupple living togather is illegal.
The Federal and state govenments can make anything they please into a felony.
-Bill
Oral sex in some states is still a felony. At least one state(GA) an umarried cupple living togather is illegal.
The Federal and state govenments can make anything they please into a felony.
-Bill
Zundfolge
Member
I think you're the one missing the point. M-Rex doesn't care because he's "100% Pro-Police. 0% Pro-Police State" (although I doubt the last part, or at least I doubt M-Rex's definition of "police state" is the same as most of the rest of us).whm1974 said:
Making easy felons out of basically good people is nothing more than job security.
M-Rex
member
Zundfolge said:
You know me that well, eh? Of course it has nothing to do with your pre-conceived bias. Naaaahhhhhh...couldn't be.
Blame your legislators. Vote. Live with the results.
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