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battery with a skateboard.

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by eatatjoes, Dec 18, 2003.

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  1. eatatjoes

    eatatjoes Member

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    some of you may have seen the video floating around the web that shows a violent beating given with a skateboard. i don't wish to post the video without clearence from a mod so i won't at this time.

    to summarize what is seen: there is a young man in what looks like a fairly busy section of street messing around on his skateboard. he starts by asking people walking by to get on his board and then procedes to push it out from under them, resulting is quite a nasty fall.

    after the second time he does this he throws his skateboard at a passing car, appearing to hit the roof. the young lady driving gets out and demands an i.d. so she may be able to receive compensation for damages that may have occured.

    he refuses to show i.d. and the video cuts to a few minutes later. an older man approaches the skater and attempts to put him in a headlock, he misses and the skater draws up his skateboard as if to swing it and hit the older man in the head. the older man raises his hands and they argue for a few seconds, all the while the skater is feigning a swing with the board.

    they continue to argue when the skater swings his board, hitting the older man in the head and knocking him to the ground. the swing is fairly hard and a solid *thwack* is heard on the tape. the older man attempts to get up and is hit in the head again, he is then kicked in the face and finally hit in the head again, all while he is on the ground. the skater than proceeds to skate away.

    my question is this: at what point would it have been permissible to draw a firearm if he was carrying? also would it have been permissible to draw a firearm if you were a member of the crowd(there was quite a large crowd) in an attempt to stop what was happening?

    this assumes the older man or member of the crowd had a valid CCW permit.
     
  2. schadenfreude

    schadenfreude Member

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    The man shouldn't have been in that situation. He should have run away and called the police.

    When the old man was kicked on the ground you might have a resaonable fear that the man's life was in danger if you were in the crowd. But it's still a difficult shoot.

    I think you would have a hell of a time convincing a jury that a shoot was legit if you were the old man or a bystander. I would think there was way too much time to flee.

    I think if you were a bystander and you shot the guy with the skateboard everyone would want to know why you didn't tackle him? He didn't have a deadly weapon (in the eyes of many). It's a tough one.
     
  3. outfieldjack

    outfieldjack Member

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    Hmmmm

    If I came upon the situation while the skater was hitting the old man I would tell him to stop. If he hit him again I would then "draw down" on the skater and tell him if he contiues to attack the old man I will do what is necessary to defend the old man. HOPEFULLY the punk will get the idea. If he were to hit him a third time :confused: :confused: :confused:

    I would either have to backup my promise or try to "manhandle" him myself. Problem would be where to put my .357 while doing this. I dunno, maybe I would shoot if it appeared he was putting the old man in a "life threating" position.

    Jack
     
  4. spacemanspiff

    spacemanspiff Senior Member

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    depends on your states laws regarding when deadly force is 'justifiable'.
    if i was witnessing that going on, i'd draw down on the person as soon as they endangered another persons safety. falling off a skateboard to the ground could very well cripple a person or leave them with broken bones. threatening to hit someone with a skateboard like a baseball bat is very serious.

    theres a good chance that idiot would have been killed if a person like myself was being attacked or witnessed such an attack.


    when i was a teenager, i didnt skateboad. i rollerbladed. for some reason skaters hated bladers and in some places they would viciously attack rollerbladers, hitting them like they did in the account you posted. its assault with a deadly weapon as far as i'm concerned.
    back in the day i was faster than anyone on a skateboard, and often could hold my own against someone on a bike. that was my goal as i bladed, to overtake everyone ahead of me on the bike trails. and i wasnt even the fastest blader, i knew several who left me in the dust, and on flat open roads could get up to 25-30 mph. i left many a parking garage attendant out of breath trying to catch me.
     
  5. Sylvilagus Aquaticus

    Sylvilagus Aquaticus Member

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    Here in Dallas the DA has determined that water is a deadly weapon.

    I don't think you'd have much argument about the use of deadly force to whap this sk8r d00d if it happened here.

    Regards,
    Rabbit.
     
  6. Sportcat

    Sportcat Member

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    I believe in SC a CWP holder can defend another person's life if they are in danger.
     
  7. rock jock

    rock jock Member

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    The question here is did the victim do anything to make the sitation worse, i.e., put himself unnecessarily in danger and by doing so, contribute to his own assault? If so, use of deadly force would be a stretch. IMO, the victim in this case was perfectly justified in exiting his vehicle and observing the skater at a safe distance while he called the police WITHOUT confronting him. This would allow the victim to rely information real-time to LE via the dispatcher. I would also say that although the skater up to that point had demonstrated himself to be a total idiot, he had not done anything that would lead a reasonable person to believe they were entering a dangerous confrontation. Now, all that having been said, if the skater initiated a confrontation while the victim is waiting on police, the victim should have retreated to safety. If the victim were trapped however, he would be justified in using deadly force. All my own opinion.
     
  8. ceetee

    ceetee Member

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    The girl driver should have called LE as soon as he refused to make an effort to fix the damage done to her car. I can see getting out of the car first, and saying, "Hey! You gotta fix this!"

    Then she shoulda stayed there until LEO's arrived. From this story, I'm not sure what the older man was trying to accomplish... was he defending the girl? Or just trying to prove a point? Either way, nobody was really being assaulted or battered until he tried to put the guy into a head lock.

    If the girl didn't call LE, then he should have. Regardless, I can't see threatening the younger guy with deadly force until such time as he was battering the older guy beyond that which would be necessary for self-defense (against the headlock).
     
  9. Balog

    Balog Member

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    I'd say reapeatedly kicking someone in the head and hitting them w/ a deadly weapon after they no longer pose a threat is entirely unjustified. If you think a skateboard isn't a deadly weapon you've obviously never been smacked w/ one.
     
  10. 45R

    45R Member

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    Thats what we call a poor outcome in the medical profession. Its too bad someone didnt help the older gentleman out.
     
  11. mwithers72

    mwithers72 Member

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    I would say that some people were being battered.

    I dont know why this dumb a$$ got away with it for as long as he did. why didnt somebody kick his a$$. I mean come on if that happened to anyone on this board do you not think that there would be some a$$ kicking going on.


    ( ok i will no longer use a$$ for the rest of the day I think that I used my limit on this post.....sorry)
     
  12. zahc

    zahc Member

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    Unfortunately I can vouch for how rollerbladers are hated. I ride little bikes, skaters sometime don't get along with us either and it can be very intimdating being a lone biker in a ghetto park with a ten foot fence around it to keep bikes out (climb over) and about 20 skateboarders giving off bad vibes. Skateboards make pretty good weapons.

    I'm interested in more opinions on lethal force in the original scenario.
     
  13. eatatjoes

    eatatjoes Member

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    here is the video.

    you should be able to get a better handle on what happened after viewing it than reading my somewhat lacking sysnopsis.
     
  14. Goet

    Goet Member

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    I just saw the video.



    I would have shot the punk till the mag was empty.
     
  15. Balog

    Balog Member

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    Note: I don't have sound on this PC, so I'm going off video solely.
    1. That doesn't look like the old(er) fellow tried to put him in a headlock.
    2. Deadly force would IMHO have been justified from the first swing. The skater was a credible threat to kill or maim the old(er) fellow.
     
  16. TheeBadOne

    TheeBadOne Member

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    After viewing the video, it's as the 1st post said, "An older man", not and "old man". He looks pretty young himself, 20ish.
     
  17. Balog

    Balog Member

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    Goet: Mormon Labe! That's priceless!
     
  18. Matt G

    Matt G Moderator Emeritus

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    Having just seen that video footage, I'm angry. I'm hot. I'm really upset.

    Mr. Skateboard, in this instance, needs a good old-fashioned butt-whoopin'. BTW, the older fellow isn't an "old man," he's probably just in his late thirties or so.

    Why didn't the girl call 911? Why didn't the dude? Were they acquainances? Dunno. Who took this footage?

    Why didn't anyone stop this idiot from beating a man on the ground with a board?

    These questions stand. That said, I don't see this as a "shoot" situation-- I see it as a "draw, and get other fellow to safety" situation.

    Not to say that being swung at with a skateboard isn't deadly:
    http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/66869_skate17ww.shtml
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GenesBMX/message/2887
     
  19. TarpleyG

    TarpleyG Member

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    Had I been the "old guy" and still had the wherewithal to draw and maintain myself in an upright position, I would have done so. If the skateboarder came again, I would have fired.

    Had I been a bystander, I would have drawn and gotten the "old guy" the hell outa there and promptly called the police.

    The second scenario would also depend on where in the crowd I was and opportunity.

    GT
     
  20. spacemanspiff

    spacemanspiff Senior Member

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    as far as i'm concerned, i'd have shot until empty.

    looked like it was some dumbbutt imitating some "jack@ss" stunts. he obviously had his friends there to video tape it and 'ohhh' and 'ahhh' about how tough he is.

    attack someone with a 2x4, and you'll likely be charged with 'assault with a deadly weapon'. skateboard should fall in the same category when used as a weapon.

    especially since he kept returning to hit/kick the guy who was dazed from the first hit.

    shoot until empty.
     
  21. outfieldjack

    outfieldjack Member

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    After seeing the video...

    I would have run in with my gun drawn.... IF, after I was in between them, the skater had made another threating move toward me or the "older man", I would have shot COM and then asked for the video for my defense.
     
  22. Thumper

    Thumper Member

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    I've seen the video. I would have cheerfully beat the dog s*** out of the guy.
     
  23. eatatjoes

    eatatjoes Member

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    what really bothered me was that not a single person even attempted to stop it in any way. even though it was over in a few seconds there were people close enough that after the first blow someone could have been able to close the distance and prevent the further attacks.
     
  24. ceetee

    ceetee Member

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    After seeing the video... Boy that's a toughie... Anybody else see the girl who was supposed to be so mad at the sk8boarder give the peace sign as he rode down her hatchback?

    And with all the other people around, it's most likely that as soon as you get involved, this guy's friends will swarm on you like cockroaches on a Snickers Bar the instant the light's turned off...

    1. Yes, dial 911 the instant you see trouble start. IMO, those guys who got kicked off the sk8board looked like acquaintances (if not friends) of the jerk's who deserved a bruise or two for taking part in this ridiculous thing...

    2. If the thing turned serious before LE arrived, yes, step in. First, step in unarmed, and try to de-escalate the issue. If that doesn't work, show your weapon and explain how you're feeling threatened with violence, and if the threat doesn't drop the sk8board and lie down peacefully, he might end up taking a dirt nap.

    3. Use deadly force as a last resort. This is exactly why anybody who carries a firearm should also carry some form of kick-??? non-lethal self-defense also (I'm thinking here of the LEO-type 17% O.C. spray...)

    Realize that from the instant you decide to step in every action you take will be second-guessed ninety times, by people who wouldn't know a real threat if it came up and punched 'em in the nose.

    Think globally, act locally... and tactically...
     
  25. Prodigalshooter

    Prodigalshooter Member

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    Someone should have tackled that guy from behind and kicked his butt, he certainly deserved it.
     
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