Battle Rifles (SOCOM, HK91, M14)

[AK103K]

I would plan on mounting an Aimpoint T-1 on it as the irons are pretty bad for medium to longer ranges, and the weight of other optics, like say a scout scope, really foul up the balance of the gun.

The irons on the SOCOM, by their size, are really meant for short range shooting, and they work fine for that. If you want something for longer distance, you can replace them with a standard set for the Bush/Scout length rifles.

Something else to consider with the shorter guns and the irons is the number of ''clicks" for zero. My standard M1A's were around 8-10 clicks for a 100 yard zero. My Bush model was 14 clicks, and my SOCOM was 22.

I had both an Aimpoint ML2 and a Burris Scout scope on my SOCOM at some point. Neither really messed with the balance, and both worked, once I got mounts that would work with Springfields rail (its not mil spec). Of the three choices of sights, I prefer the red dot the most. Personally, Id dump the factory rail for something like an Ultimak. Anything that allows you to get the sight down lower is best. The factory mount sits somewhat high, making a good cheek weld difficult. Its also made of steel, which get hot very fast, and stays hot a long time. The Ultimak being aluminium, sheds heat quickly, and is usually only warm to the touch, even after a lot of shooting. You dont want your hand near the factory rail after a couple of quick mags.

Last would be a HK 91. I had considered them back in the mid 80s when they were readily available but the ergonomics were just horrible I thought. Particularly the length of the stock.

The LOP on a "standard" 91 is the same as most combat rifles, right around 13". They did make different interchangeable butt plates for them that would allow you to change the LOP, and I have seen a number that had them in place. Like the AK (which also has a 13" LOP), many seem to think the combat stocked rifles are ''short", which they are not. If you use the rifles anywhere but a bench, you know why. It sounds like you may have handled one that had the extension in place.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

Like the AK's, most of the complaints you hear about them go away with familiarization and use. If you live with one for a little while, you quickly adapt to them. They do lack a bolt hold open on the last round, and the charging handles are in a strange place, but neither are a handicap once youre familiar with them. Even without the "correct" G3 paddle mag release, its still very easy to make quick mag swaps with the civilian models.

My only complaint about the AK is that it's slower to reload than an AR 15 but hey! It's just the nature of the beast.

 

[AK103K]

With a little practice, they really arent all that far apart. But from a pure "time" standpoint, I think youre right for most people. I dont think the difference is really worth worrying about in real world use though.

If you want, you can dump an AK mag one handed, with your hand on the grip and using the middle finger of that hand to release it. They will drop free on their own, or you can knock them out with the reload as some do. I have seen some reload AK's faster than many AR users can. But with any of them, its the amount of practice you put in with them that makes the difference. Its that practice that tends to make the "problems" of the unfamiliar go away.

 

[Welding Rod]

It sounds like you may have handled one that had the extension in place.

Quite possible. That was more than 25 years ago, I can't remember. I just remember my hands were way out from my torso. I don't remember the HK93 being any better in that regard. Anyhow due to this, at the time I bought a Colt AR15A2 Carbine instead.

 

[dprice3844444]

you might also want to give the colt sp901 a good look at.it's in 308,but 223 upper adaptable in car configuration.and if your an old fart like me,probably lighter to carry than the other rifles listed.

 

[AK103K]

Anyhow due to this, at the time I bought a Colt AR15A2 Carbine instead.

I suppose a lot of it could be perception too. The A2 M16's/AR's are actually 5/8" longer than the A1's or original M16's, which have the same LOP as the HK's, AK's, and other combat stocked guns. Its why my full stocked AR's have A1 stocks on them. You wouldnt think 5/8" would make that much of a difference, but when youre used to the shorter stocks, the A2 stocks are just long enough to not shoulder properly (or at least awkwardly), especially when done quickly.

 

[valnar]

There are a lot of variations on a theme if you don't want to go with the big boys. I myself would buy a PWS MK216 over any of those, and plan to once I get the funds.

 

[Justin]

It's not on your list, but my personal choice would be to go with an AR-10 pattern rifle from either LaRue or JP.

The AR-pattern rifles will tend to be much more modular and therefore easier to modify than the others, with a much wider array of after-market parts.

Also, they have a potential to be more accurate than the FAL and possibly M1A, depending on how you set them up.

 

[Stevie-Ray]

I would probably go with a nice Para FN-FAL 1st.

Socom 16 second

M1A/M14 third

And HK91 last.

This, but an AR-10 between the FAL and the SOCOM.

 

[lionking]

The H&K91 or PTR egronomics are ok to me, my main peeve is the location and style of the charging handle which takes practice, that and the rear sight lack of better adjustments. But it, mine anyway which I happened to take out today , I trust it to fire with just about any ammo without adjustments which I can't say the same about the FAL, my DSA FAL anyway. I trust my DSA as long as I stay with certain ammo.

I prefer the FAL or M1A though.

M1A would my first pick because it shoots and feels good, is reliable with most ammo commercial or surplus, and its easy to use with very good sights.

 

[fireside44]

I trust it to fire with just about any ammo without adjustments which I can't say the same about the FAL, my DSA FAL anyway. I trust my DSA as long as I stay with certain ammo.

Who goes into a critical situation with untested gear or ammo though?

 

[wlewisiii]

FAL. Why settle for anything less?

 

[lionking]

quote fireside: "Who goes into a critical situation with untested gear or ammo though?"

Probably not many. But what if your next availability of ammo to resupply is untested ammo. I can shoot just about any types of ammo commercial or surplus in the H&K or M1A without changing anything and they will function fine.

My DSA FAL though, and I can't account for other FAL'S or other DSA rifles, will shoot flawlessly with certain ammo but jam the bolt with others, specifically South African surplus but it may with others also that I haven't tried. I know some say "adjust the gas port" but that seems a finicky design in that case.

I love my FAL but just sayin'. But besides anyway, the chances any of us civilians will ever go into "battle" is low.....hopefully.

 

[animator]

Good luck finding a real HK 91, they have been banned from importation since 1989 because they are a non-sporting rifle. Instead you will want to check out the PTR-91 which is and excellent American made version of that design and they sell them for $993 on Bud's.

Had my choice of 3 the last time I was at my local Cabella's. They were HK, and they were made in Germany. PTR does make some nice rifles, though.


Ran into another HK at a local gun show recently, so they're not impossible to find. However they a bit on the expensive side...

 

[Cosmoline]

18" is absolutely as short as I would go with .308/7.62. In fact after shooting the Scout a bit I'm thinking about sticking on a full length barrel and turning it back into a regular M1A. I really don't understand what the point of the "socom" was supposed to be.

 

[4v50 Gary]

AR-10. Better balance than the HK and you can fix it yourself.

 

[PaulKersey3]

Okay, lots of good input here. First off, my omitting FN was based on the looks of their "new" stuff. My opinion of the FAL is that they can be fine rifles indeed. I'm not getting one because I've got a fellow shooter that has one, and also because I've decided to go American for my battle rifle. I just passed up a Phillipine made M14 for that exact reason. After much debate and reading comments on here, I'm going to go with the Scout. That is actually the one I got my hands on while shopping and mistakenly thought was the SOCOM. I agree that 16" is a mite short for .308 and 18" seems about right.
The scout seems the right choice also because it's a good balance of the old and proven, and the new and improved. The HK is really nice and I also like the stock as I am quite tall. I'm thinking I'll fill the HK niche further down the road with something cool like a USP or an SP89. The Scout M1A will be a great addition, just need to figure out the accessories and finish now. If anyone has pics of that or a similar M1A model I'd love to see. Also would like to hear thoughts on optics. Thanks again for the input guys!

 

[vaupet]

Not american but FN: if you like the wood/classic rifle look, you can also consider the SAFN (also known as FN49) in 30-06. With the right ammo, they are the most accurate autoloader of that era. They are build for quality thus very expensive to make.

 

[HavelockLEO]

I've owned all but the SOCOM and didnt keep the HK. I honestly dont know which one I'd take over the other, in a pinch I'd decide, but without stress itd be a hard decision

 

[fireside44]

My DSA FAL though, and I can't account for other FAL'S or other DSA rifles, will shoot flawlessly with certain ammo but jam the bolt with others, specifically South African surplus but it may with others also that I haven't tried. I know some say "adjust the gas port" but that seems a finicky design in that case.

The wide variety of gas adjustment was so that someone interested in being able to successfully use the widest range of ammo could do so with the most optimum performance possible, it has nothing to do with "finicky". You simply haven't learned the ins and outs of your weapon.

 

[mortablunt]

FAL is my first pick. After that, I'd go M1A simply because HK guns are so bloody rare and overpriced. It's a nice rifle, but I am not coughing up 3 grand for it.

 

[Stevie-Ray]

The wide variety of gas adjustment was so that someone interested in being able to successfully use the widest range of ammo could do so with the most optimum performance possible, it has nothing to do with "finicky". You simply haven't learned the ins and outs of your weapon.

LOL. I once talked to a guy that wasn't thrilled with his FAL, due to it's recoil. "Recoil?" I was quite surprised since mine recoils like a .22, and said, "Let me guess, it also ejects your brass into next week." He said, "Yeah, no kidding!"