BE/86 rmr 124.g fphp/w/G43.

[lauderdale]

4.6/4.7g at 1.080 best @10 yds can clover leaf high left. but can not shed the powder burn on outside of spent case. At max. and using sdb/t/7 turret. Is a spent case w/dirtier markings after being used an issue. Now I used to praise clean,clean,clean. What am I missing/tightend up w/ss/pin cleaned used win. and using rc crimp measurement of .372 alls very nicely tuned to my liking.
Dis claimer of course do not try my loads as they may not work and am not liable.

 

[rskent]

Ahh Whaat?

 

[papaairbear]

Well, assuming you're using the RMR hard core thick plate match hollow point in 9mm, there is one thing stands out to me. I think your crimp is too tight. If the bullet is .355 and the case wall thickness is .011", then your crimp should be around .377 to .378 (2 case wall thicknesses plus the bullet).

 

[lauderdale]

.356 bullet dia. RMR fphp that replaced the rnfp124g. I believe Jake kept them hard plate. W/be/86 just trying to clean them up for my single stack 9mm glock 43. At that oal I get a sootie case on the outside/un burnt powder. But they shoot well out of the G43. thanks fella's.

 

[vaalpens]

I have found that BE-86 normally shows an early good grouping even though the pressure is still low. When you up the load, you could maybe find another sweet spot with higher pressure and maybe without the powder burn. My BE-86 load using the Berrys 124gr HBFPTP bullet is 5.6gr at a COL of 1.060". The max per Alliant load data is 5.8gr, so you can still explore higher charges if you are comfortable with it, since you are only at 4.7gr.

 

[lauderdale]

Vaalpeens what about going to a hotter primer for better burn and maybe adjusting oal. ? I believe on the be/86 thread you did some work and ran the #'s on a new chrono you had? With s&b spp. . I was cleaner w/cci and was thinking ws/pp. Just splitten hairs just shot 50rnds. + 2 clips and nice just steel/paper shooter and respect alls knowledge. like the rmr 124 fp before I move on im working w/the one they replaced from my understanding. Thank you fellas John.

 

[LiveLife]

BE-86 RMR 124 gr FPHP ... 4.6/4.7g at 1.080" ... but can not shed the powder burn on outside of spent case ... crimp measurement of .372"

You get powder burn on case from insufficient case mouth/neck seal with the chamber.

+1 on too much crimp that can reduce the plated bullet diameter. Since case wall thickness averages .011", I usually add .022" to the diameter of the plated bullet for taper crimp. So for .355"-.356" sized bullet, I use .377"-.378" taper crimp.

So try using less taper crimp and see if the powder burn goes away. You can also try loading bullet longer to reduce high pressure gas leakage.

If not, since BE-86 is relatively slower burning like Unique, you will experience cleaner powder burn at higher powder charge. Alliant load data shows 5.7 gr as max charge for 125 gr lead RN and 5.9 gr for 124 gr JHP at 1.120" OAL - http://www.alliantpowder.com/reload...wderlist.aspx&type=1&powderid=38&cartridge=23

FYI, I use 5.2 gr of BE-86 for RMR 124 gr HC Match RN bullet loaded to 1.160" and .377" taper crimp and do not get powder burn on the cases - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ick-plated-bullets.761471/page-5#post-9655361

 

[lauderdale]

.380 note of old rc's at that crimp. Im dead rong at my measurement bless his heart I have his notes attached to my reloading bench on edge. Im at .377 going to lengthen/increase load. Thank you fella's! His other note is 377. w./356 plated. Old feller though me a bunch! And you"ll!

 

[DeadEye9]

I think the unburnt powder is the result of the powder choice itself. These little micro 9's like a pretty slow powder if your looking for cleanliness. Either that or something that runs very efficiently on the low end of the charge scale, but then your giving up velocity. I would try to eliminate the crimp as an issue first, but also try some other powders if you have them. I know this isn't a slow powder but a lot of people like Titegroup in short barrel 9mm. A charge of under 4gr is plenty for a 124 target load and it burns almost completely. My preference for loading for my M&P Shield 9 is CFE Pistol. I get good velocities, economy and clean charges all in one package that offers good accuracy as well. I would try some other powders and see the results. Good luck!

 

[jwalts27]

Up your charge and that soot ring will go away. BE86 is very clean IMHO but I also run fairly hot loads. Also back off on the crimp a bit.

 

[LiveLife]

These little micro 9's like a pretty slow powder if your looking for cleanliness.

Really? N320 is fast burning powder on par with W231/HP-38 and is clean burning even at 125 power factor loads. Clays is faster burning and very clean burning, even at lower charges.

I shot 9mm with Bullseye/Red Dot/Promo/Clays/WST/Titegroup/Green Dot/N320/W231/HP-38/Universal/Unique/Power Pistol/BE-86/Herco/WSF/CFE Pistol/AutoComp/HS-6 at start to max charges and they were comparable in "cleanliness" with some exceptions but did not notice slower burning powders to be more cleaner burning.

I think how "clean" a powder burns depends more on powder burn efficiency achieved by initial and sustained chamber pressures. Too low and you will get sooty cases regardless of powder burn rate. As others posted, shooting loads high enough in powder charge to achieve cleaner burn will result in cleaner cases.

 

[rsrocket1]

BE-86 is right between Unique and Power Pistol so it is on the lower end of the medium speed powders. You do need to load on the warmer side to prevent sooty cases, but you will still get a pretty clean burn with no unburned flakes spewed out in front of the shooting bench. I've found that 5.2g under a 125g lead bullet shoots with a single digit SD. It's great in a full size M&P 9 but it's a little stout in a Shield 9.

If the case is sooty at the mouth but clean at the base, don't worry about it, you are getting a good enough seal. If it's sooty all the way down, then you may be getting big swings in your MV. Of course at 10 yard, it probably won't matter so long as you aren't getting blow back to your face (distracting).

 

[DeadEye9]

Really? N320 is fast burning powder on par with W231/HP-38 and is clean burning even at 125 power factor loads. Clays is faster burning and very clean burning, even at lower charges.

I shot 9mm with Bullseye/Red Dot/Promo/Clays/WST/Titegroup/Green Dot/N320/W231/HP-38/Universal/Unique/Power Pistol/BE-86/Herco/WSF/CFE Pistol/AutoComp/HS-6 at start to max charges and they were comparable in "cleanliness" with some exceptions but did not notice slower burning powders to be more cleaner burning.

I think how "clean" a powder burns depends more on powder burn efficiency achieved by initial and sustained chamber pressures. Too low and you will get sooty cases regardless of powder burn rate. As others posted, shooting loads high enough in powder charge to achieve cleaner burn will result in cleaner cases.

I guess that was a pretty blanket statement. What I should have said is that the slower/medium burn powders seem to do better in smaller barrel 9's at low start end charges. The faster powders seem to do just fine with a complete burn as long as a moderate to high charge is used. starting end charges with fast powders don't do well for me in small 9mms. I only have a few small ones; Glock 26, Shield 9 and Keltec P11. I sold my G43 because I didn't shoot it as well with any load so after 6 months I got rid of it. Sadly too because I'm a definite Glock fan. My Shield is just a much better shooter in my hands than the 43 was. Back to loads though, for faster powers I've done well with HP38/231 in 9mm, but it doesn't do great in my short barrels. CFE Pistol is a good all around choice. As are AA 5 ,7, & 9 they all did very well in my 3" and less guns. Very clean and accurate. The CFE is very clean too though and seems to burn completely with minimal flash. I like blue dot, red dot, and Power Pistol for full size guns sometimes depending on caliber but they all produce very moderate muzzle flash. I'm partial to Hodg powders, so my typical go to's for pistol range loads in general are HP-38/CFE/TiteGroup. Typically these three make great range loads in all the calibers i shoot. For my weekly action pistol shoots though my pet load uses Power Pistol, pushing a 124 XTP rite at 1200-1210 from a Glock 19. Very accurate and feels identical to my HST carry load with similar POI.

 

[LiveLife]

The CFE is very clean too though and seems to burn completely with minimal flash. I like blue dot, red dot, and Power Pistol for full size guns sometimes depending on caliber but they all produce very moderate muzzle flash.

In my low light testing, Promo/Red Dot produced smaller muzzle flash compared to CFE Pistol - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/need-low-flash-9mm-powder.809859/page-2#post-10357740

"taliv, I got to do the low light/night muzzle flash testing with night vision scope and here are my findings.

Four loads were tested using Glock 22/KKM 40-9 conversion barrel (10 rounds of each load were fired):

HP-38 4.8 gr RMR 115 gr FMJ @ 1.130" - This load was used as reference and produced 4" long by 2" high orange colored muzzle flash from the side (Shooter's point of view - 1.5" round flash).

Promo 3.8-4.0 gr RMR 124 gr HM RN @ 1.150" - 1" long by 1" high faint orange colored muzzle flash (Shooter's POV - 0.5" round flash). In low light, muzzle flash was almost non-detectable.

BE-86 5.2 gr RMR 124 gr HM RN @ 1.150" - 2" long by 3" high bright orange muzzle flash (Shooter's POV - 3" round flash). This was by far the brightest muzzle flash of four powders tested.

CFE-Pistol 5.2 gr RMR 124 gr HM RN @ 1.150" - 1" long by 2" high orange colored muzzle flash (Shooter's POV - 2" round flash)."

 

[jwalts27]

interesting......I thought BE86 was supposed to have some flash suppressant in it?

 

[LiveLife]

Powder manufacturers add flash suppressant to powders likely because they have too big of a muzzle flash like Power Pistol.

 

[lauderdale]

Used charge master verified w/dill. beam scale then on to the Neptune/powder funnel. Did use ccispp on T-7 press. @ 4.8 g. upped the charge with sorted head stamp as mentioned and laid the spent cases on the ground. Dark out. next 10yds. once again for grouping whether permitting then chono. That be nice if I get more centerd from high left but I was like that w/the g43/prob. my skills? CLEAN Hey I have to thank you guyz bbig time! John!

 

[LiveLife]

Good to hear.

So, .377" taper crimp and higher 4.8 gr charge did the trick for powder burn on cases?

 

[lauderdale]

Yes sir. I have more work to do as its got dark out. Put it back on paper then chrono. The first 500rnds. did very well/needed to do more home work! Thanks for all your help! John.

 

[grandpawj]

Well guys, I picked up my first pound bottle of BE-86 today at LGS. I haven't even decided what I'm gonna load first. I noticed when I picked mine up it costs less than what Unique usually costs me. ($23.49)

 

[LiveLife]

BE-86 has produced loads comparable and more accurate than my previous 9mm/40S&W reference loads so I would suggest those two calibers to start.

 

[Ruger 15151]

BE-86 has produced loads comparable and more accurate than my previous 9mm/40S&W reference loads so I would suggest those two calibers to start.

I was able to get 5/8" 5-shot groups @ 15 yards with my M&P CORE 9mm w/Storm Lake barrel. Thanks for sharing the load information! I found that I got the best grouping with a 124gr RN @ 5.4 grs of BE-86 COL. 1.145. However, I wanted to test with Berry's 124 HBFN. I will have to seat the bullet a bit deeper (COL 1.065) to keep it off the lands so I will probably have to adjust the load down a bit. Without Quickload software, is there a general rule of thumb that would tell me how to adjust the grains based on how much deeper I will be seating the bullet?

 

[LiveLife]

Thanks for the PMs.

As I indicated in the last PM, between RN loaded longer and FP/HP bullets loaded shorter, I would adjust BE-86 powder charge .2-.4 gr but I would suggest a full powder work up from start charge to determine possible lighter target load.

Here are some data from other members using BE-86 with Berry's HBFP

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/be-86-in-9mm.791073/#post-10066746

 

[Ruger 15151]

Thanks bds!

 

[lauderdale]

W/the G43 grouping was not well. Group came apart w/4.8g. Only difference ccispp/versus s&b. Nice clean burn. Going to go from here.