Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Be a snitch or serve time.

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Warren, May 19, 2005.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Warren

    Warren Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2004
    Messages:
    2,454
    Location:
    Northern California
    Is the water getting warmer or should we be happy that at least we are freer than those other suckers.

    This probably won't pass but it is an indication of the twisted, evil though process of this one congressman and probably others.

    And you can be sure that if this passes and is upheld it WILL be applied to other things--including guns. Most certainly guns.

    The whole of the bill is disgusting but the bolded bits are the worst.

    link to blog This will probably fall off their front page so I'll post the whole piece.


    FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: May 17, 2005, The Drug Policy Alliance
    CONTACT: Tony Newman (212) 613-8026; Elizabeth Méndez Berry (212) 513-8036
    Senior Republican Proposes "Draft" for the War on Drugs
    New Bill Would Require All Americans to Spy on Their Neighbors - Including Going Undercover and Wearing a Wire - or Face Jail Time

    Instead of Dismantling Draconian, Unpopular Mandatory Minimum Sentences, Legislation Would Also Establish "Mandatory Minimums" for Every Federal Crime

    A Senior Republican in Congress has proposed what would essentially be a draft for the War on Drugs.

    The legislation would require all Americans who witness or learn about certain drug offenses to report them to the police within 24 hours and go undercover and wear a wire to catch the offenders if ordered to do so - even if the offender is their son or daughter. Introduced by Congressman James Sensenbrenner (R-WI), the "Safe Access to Drug Treatment and Child Protection Act" (HR 1528), would also overturn a recent U.S. Supreme Court decision by making all federal sentencing guidelines essentially mandatory and enacting new draconian penalties for a variety of non-violent drug offenses.

    "It’s frightening that a senior member of Congress wants to draft every American into the War on Drugs and make them agents of the state," said Bill Piper, director of national affairs for the Drug Policy Alliance. "This totalitarian legislation forces citizens to spy on each other and pits family member against family member."

    Under the legislation, any American who witnesses or learns of certain drug offenses taking place would have to report the offenses to law enforcement within 24 hours and provide "full assistance" in the investigation, apprehension, and prosecution of the people involved. Failure to do so would be a crime punishable by a mandatory two year prison sentence and a maximum of ten years.

    An example of an offense that would have to be reported to the police within 24 hours is finding out that one’s brother, who has children, bought a bag of marijuana to share with his wife. Another example is finding out that one’s son gave his college roommate a marijuana joint.

    In each of these cases one is forced to report the relative to the police within 24 hours. One would also have to assist the government in every way, including wearing a wire if needed. Taking 48 hours to think about it could land one in jail. In addition to turning family member against family member, the legislation could also put many ordinary Americans into dangerous situations by forcing them to go undercover to gain evidence against strangers.

    Despite growing opposition to mandatory minimum sentences, the bill also eliminates federal judges’ ability to give sentences below the minimum sentence recommended by federal sentencing guidelines - essentially creating a mandatory minimum sentence for every federal offense (including both drug and non-drug offenses). It also mandates a 10-year minimum sentence for anyone 21 or older who gives marijuana or others drugs to someone under 18 (i.e. a 21-year-old college students shares a joint to his 17-year old brother). A second offense would carry a mandatory sentence of life in prison. Anyone at a party who passes a marijuana joint at a party to someone who has at some point in their life been in drug treatment would face a mandatory 5-year minimum prison sentence.

    "Our country’s prisons are already overcrowded with people serving massive sentences for non-violent drug offenses," said Bill Piper. "The recent Supreme Court decision provided a perfect opportunity for legislators to do the right thing and untie judges’ hands. Instead, they’re trying to handcuff the judges completely."

    The bill has been put on the same legislative fast-track as a recent controversial anti-gang bill that the U.S. House of Representatives passed in less than two month’s time.


    link to whole bill

    `SEC. 425. (a) It shall be unlawful for any person who witnesses or learns of a violation of sections 416(b)(2), 417, 418, 419, 420, 424, or 426 to fail to report the offense to law enforcement officials within 24 hours of witnessing or learning of the violation and thereafter provide full assistance in the investigation, apprehension, and prosecution of the person violating paragraph (a).


    `(b) Any person who violates subsection (a) of this section shall be sentenced to not less than two years or more than 10 years. If the person who witnesses or learns of the violation is the parent or guardian, or otherwise responsible for the care or supervision of the person under the age of 18 or the incompetent person, such person shall be sentenced to not less than three years or more than 20 years.'.
     
  2. dasmi

    dasmi Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2005
    Messages:
    2,781
    Location:
    Colorado Springs, CO
    I will not. Congress can bite me. It's time to remind these jokers exactly who pays their salary.
     
  3. jefnvk

    jefnvk Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2004
    Messages:
    4,938
    Location:
    The Copper Country, Michigan
    Usually one of the few defenders (or at least, one of the 'there has gotta be more to the story') of the gov't, even I say this is out of line.

    You know what I say? Lets make all drugs legal for two years. I bet at the end of the two years, crime drops a lot. If so, then drug laws stay kaput. If crime goes up, we can go back to whatever we do now.
     
  4. whm1974

    whm1974 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2004
    Messages:
    2,058
    Just how would they be able to enforce this?

    -Bill
     
  5. tyme

    tyme Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2002
    Messages:
    2,550
    Location:
    Novalis
    Easily. Here's how it works. Joe Thug gets caught with 5 kilos of heroin. Joe doesn't want to do a lot of time, so he says, "Look, over there, John and James knew about this and they didn't report me." Joe gets his deal and John and James have to pay $$$ fighting Joe's testimony in court. They might even end up in jail.

    The system of trading testimony for deals breeds injustice. No hard physical evdience that you're not making up the story and getting innocent people in trouble? No deal.
     
  6. rick_reno

    rick_reno member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    3,027
    I hate to inform you - but it ain't US (the taxpayers). Sure, we pay them - but that's their pocket change. Their salaries are paid by lobbists, big corporations and others capable of lining their pockets with enough money to get their attention.
     
  7. RevDisk

    RevDisk Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2004
    Messages:
    1,737
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    "Officer, I swore I saw Congressman James Sensenbrenner (R-WI) with some powder around his nose. I don't KNOW if it's cocaine or he just had a powdered donut for lunch, but I didn't want to get in trouble so I'm being safe rather than sorry."
     
  8. DMF

    DMF Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2004
    Messages:
    2,247
    Location:
    Nomad
    Before we declare the sky is falling, maybe everyone should look up to see if it's true. ;)

    One Congressman drafted a proposed bill. If you think this guy could even come close to getting it out of committee, and passed by the House AND the Senate, I suggest you start writing letters to your Reps and Senators.

    However, if I were a betting man I'd say this is just a bunch of chest thumping that won't go anywhere.
     
  9. RevDisk

    RevDisk Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2004
    Messages:
    1,737
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c109:H.R.1528:

    Not sure if the above link will work. If not, visit http://www.loc.gov , click on "Thomas" in upper right hand corner, type " HR 1528 " into search box.

    Description :

    H.R.1528

    Title: To amend the Controlled Substances Act to protect vulnerable persons from drug trafficking, and for other purposes.

    Sponsor: Rep Sensenbrenner, F. James, Jr. [WI-5] (introduced 4/6/2005) Cosponsors (None)

    Latest Major Action: 4/22/2005 Referred to House subcommittee. Status: Referred to the Subcommittee on Health, for a period to be subsequently determined by the Chairman.



    CRS SUMMARY AS OF:
    4/6/2005--Introduced.

    Defending America's Most Vulnerable: Safe Access to Drug Treatment and Child Protection Act of 2005 - Amends the Controlled Substances Act (CSA) to expand penalties for distributing drugs to persons under age 21 and to cover attempting or conspiring to do so, without regard to the type of controlled substance and schedule. Requires or increases minimum mandatory sentences.

    Modifies provisions regarding distributing or manufacturing drugs in or near schools to delete the "100 feet" limitation, include public libraries and daycare facilities, and increase minimum imprisonment terms. Increases or expands the scope of penalties regarding: (1) employing children to distribute drugs near schools and playgrounds; (2) employing persons under age 18 in drug distribution; (3) distributing drugs to underage persons; (4) maintaining drug-involved premises affecting children; and (5) drug trafficking in the presence of children. Prohibits: (1) providing, or facilitating the sale of, drug paraphernalia; or (2) failing to protect children from drug trafficking activities.

    Directs the U.S. Sentencing Commission to amend the sentencing guidelines to: (1) increase base offense levels for drug-related offenses involving minors and incompetent persons; and (2) provide sentencing enhancements for possessing or brandishing a firearm.

    Prohibits and requires a minimum mandatory sentence for distributing or manufacturing a controlled substance within 1,000 feet of a drug treatment facility.

    Amends CSA to: (1) increase penalties for, and expand provisions regarding, endangering human life while illegally manufacturing a controlled substance; and (2) provide for life imprisonment without release for drug felons and violent criminals convicted a third time.

    Prohibits a court, in imposing sentence, from considering a defendant's race, sex, national origin, creed, religion, or socioeconomic status and sets forth factors a court may consider only with respect to calculating the sentencing range and imposing a sentence within that range.
     
  10. mrhuckins

    mrhuckins Guest

    Well, it is frightening to think that someone would even draft a proposal for something like this.
     
  11. LadySmith

    LadySmith Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2004
    Messages:
    254
    I second that emotion.
     
  12. thorn726

    thorn726 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2004
    Messages:
    1,388
    Location:
    berkeley, CA
    that is AMAzingly HEAVY!!!

    2 YEARS???????????????????????????????????????

    that is like a third or fourth SALES offense punishment.

    crack dealers do less time now that someone who failed to snitch would?

    maybe someone really wants more easy rape targets in prison??
     
  13. Beren

    Beren Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2002
    Messages:
    2,388
    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    This bill is legit, folks, and currently in Committee.
     
  14. Bartholomew Roberts

    Bartholomew Roberts Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2002
    Messages:
    14,613
    Location:
    Texas
    I'd also add that Sensenbrenner is Chairman of the House Judiciary committee and has all the leverage he needs to get this out of committee if he wants it out. This is one you might want to contact your Reps and Senators over if you do not want it to happen.
     
  15. TallPine

    TallPine Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2002
    Messages:
    7,734
    Location:
    somewhere in the middle of Montana
    Yeah, in the old days that was called a "witch hunt"

    Arrested "witches" were tortured until they revealed the names of several other "witches" ... who were in turn tortured until they named more "witches" ... etc

    But hey! Who really cares? Computer memory is cheaper than it's ever been before. Stop complaining. Smile, be happy ..... :rolleyes:
     
  16. yorec

    yorec Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2002
    Messages:
    501
    Location:
    Wyoming
    Seems like the first constitutional challenger a law like this would face would be to the fifth ammendment...

    If I can see it, why can't these morons in our govt? :uhoh:
     
  17. Sindawe

    Sindawe Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2002
    Messages:
    3,480
    Location:
    Outside The People's Republic of Boulder, CO
    Same here.

    "Patriot" Act, McCain-Finegold, "Real I.D.", now THIS load of dren. :cuss: :cuss: :cuss:
     
  18. geekWithA.45

    geekWithA.45 Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2003
    Messages:
    9,056
    Location:
    SouthEast PA
    Sensenbrenner, author of "RealID" is proving to be a "RealProblem"

    It seems he needs to be de-elected at the first opportunity.

    Personally, I think proposing these sort of thing qualifies him for a recall initiative, which is consistent with my point 2 of my 3 point plan:


    1) Electoral evisceration of the Democrats, with an eye towards their eventual return as a recognizably American political force

    2) Reformation of the GOP: winnow the ranks of the creepy, dark authoritarians

    3) Salvage rational and functional members of the Libertarian party, so they can be put to good use, rather than spin their wheels.
     
  19. R.H. Lee

    R.H. Lee Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2004
    Messages:
    7,377
    Location:
    CA
    Yeah. Come git some. It's time to outsource congress. We can get Pakistanis for around $12k/yr each. They'll be available 24/7 and do whatever we ask. :p
     
  20. dasmi

    dasmi Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2005
    Messages:
    2,781
    Location:
    Colorado Springs, CO
    Someone is a Savage nation listener. :D
     
  21. The Freeholder

    The Freeholder Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2004
    Messages:
    371
    Location:
    North Carolina
    Hm-m-m. From the father of Real ID we get this trash. Makes you proud to be an American who doesn't live in a Police State, right?
     
  22. moa

    moa Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2002
    Messages:
    1,154
    This sounds familiar of the old Soviet Union and similar regimes, where an attempt was made by the authorities to enlist everyone as an informant. This included methods of entrapment to leveage citizens to become informants. There is no end to this authoritarian "snitch" mentality.

    I understand this Congressman Sensenbrenner is independently weathy, and in the past seemed like a principaled and conservative politician.
     
  23. dasmi

    dasmi Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2005
    Messages:
    2,781
    Location:
    Colorado Springs, CO
    Lately things are not what they seem. Everyone, listen. Quit voting for the lesser of two evils. In the end, you get the same thing, or worse.
     
  24. nero45acp

    nero45acp Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2003
    Messages:
    1,404
    Location:
    Tampa Bay area
    Land of the free, home of the brave... :uhoh:
     

    Attached Files:

  25. Igloodude

    Igloodude Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2004
    Messages:
    741
    Location:
    southern NH
    Except that 2) seems to be reforming the small-government libertarians out of the GOP instead of the creepy dark authoritarians.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page