wingnutx
Member
I found my own kitten in Baghdad. The ungrateful little furball crawled down to the foot of my sleeping bag at 3am and peed on my feet.
Be all you can be.
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Yeah, the military sucks.
After it suckered me in, by providing accurate information and answering any questions I had, it did nothing but train me, house me, feed me, pay me, and turn me into a man. I guess I fooled them, because they never got me on the front lines, and instead taught me computer networking. Then, when I finally managed to sneak out after 4 years of this hideous torture, they provided me with money to pay for college.
What a bunch of jerks. I hate those guys!
After it suckered me in, by providing accurate information and answering any questions I had, it did nothing but train me, house me, feed me, pay me, and turn me into a man. I guess I fooled them, because they never got me on the front lines, and instead taught me computer networking. Then, when I finally managed to sneak out after 4 years of this hideous torture, they provided me with money to pay for college.
What a bunch of jerks. I hate those guys!
Zundfolge
Member
/me buys Colt a beer
If I had a friend who was considering joining up, I'd do my best to convince them not to. There's lot's of great rhetoric about standing up and doing your part to preserve freedom, democracy, and the American Way, but I fail to see how occupying Iraq has the slightest bit to do with freedom.
I'm 22; why on earth should I risk my life to help put/keep some Iraqi politician in power?
I'm 22; why on earth should I risk my life to help put/keep some Iraqi politician in power?
wingnutx
Member
Basically the same reason we wanted to keep some British politicians in power 60+ years ago.
MTMilitiaman
Member
They're getting a lot of live fire exercise right now dude. It really isn't a difficult concept.
It's easy to support this war until it stands to cost you more than you are willing to pay to believe the rhetoric. A year ago if you had asked me, I would have told you "hell yeah Suddam needs to go." That was all I needed because it was other people's friends and sons and brothers that were over there. Now I have friends over there. My brother shipped out last Tuesday. I talked to him on the phone until his Seargant came to check him out of his room. Nobody has heard from him since. It has only been a week and already I find myself scanning the paper looking for news, dreading I'll see my brother's name and know things will never be the same for any of us. Every IED and RPG in that country has new meaning when someone you love is in a position to be at the receiving end. And if you ask me now, I'll tell you I'd rather still have Saddam in power. Let him kill, rape, burn, and torture his entire country. Line them up against a wall and shoot them. Drag them kicking and screaming to mass graves outside Baghdad and shoot them in the back of the head. Throw them off a bridge into the Euphrates. I don't care. Because that entire f-ing country 12000 miles away in the sand isn't worth one hair on my brother's head.
Every time I talk to my brother on the phone he tells me not to join the Army. I wanted to be a soldier until my brother joined and I saw what it did to my family. Yes, we are proud of him. And it has made him a better person. He's never before addressed other people, like waiters, as "sir" or "mam." But being a better person is of little use to us if his legs get blown off or some camel jockey gets lucky and my brother zigs when he should have zagged. "Don't join the Army." He says, "It's a trap. It's boring as hell, no where near what they show on TV, and when you are doing something, it sucks too." For Christ's sakes he actually calculated the number of seconds he had left to help him get through it. "Think about how short a second is." He told me. The fact that he has over 30 million of them left in a war zone, and we have over 30 million of them to spend waiting for him to come back...
My brother is the most precious thing in the world to me. To hell with Iraq. Nuke the place for all I care. As long as my brother comes home. Because I swear to God, nothing will ever feel right again if the last time I saw him was this Fourth of July.
It's easy to support this war until it stands to cost you more than you are willing to pay to believe the rhetoric. A year ago if you had asked me, I would have told you "hell yeah Suddam needs to go." That was all I needed because it was other people's friends and sons and brothers that were over there. Now I have friends over there. My brother shipped out last Tuesday. I talked to him on the phone until his Seargant came to check him out of his room. Nobody has heard from him since. It has only been a week and already I find myself scanning the paper looking for news, dreading I'll see my brother's name and know things will never be the same for any of us. Every IED and RPG in that country has new meaning when someone you love is in a position to be at the receiving end. And if you ask me now, I'll tell you I'd rather still have Saddam in power. Let him kill, rape, burn, and torture his entire country. Line them up against a wall and shoot them. Drag them kicking and screaming to mass graves outside Baghdad and shoot them in the back of the head. Throw them off a bridge into the Euphrates. I don't care. Because that entire f-ing country 12000 miles away in the sand isn't worth one hair on my brother's head.
Every time I talk to my brother on the phone he tells me not to join the Army. I wanted to be a soldier until my brother joined and I saw what it did to my family. Yes, we are proud of him. And it has made him a better person. He's never before addressed other people, like waiters, as "sir" or "mam." But being a better person is of little use to us if his legs get blown off or some camel jockey gets lucky and my brother zigs when he should have zagged. "Don't join the Army." He says, "It's a trap. It's boring as hell, no where near what they show on TV, and when you are doing something, it sucks too." For Christ's sakes he actually calculated the number of seconds he had left to help him get through it. "Think about how short a second is." He told me. The fact that he has over 30 million of them left in a war zone, and we have over 30 million of them to spend waiting for him to come back...
My brother is the most precious thing in the world to me. To hell with Iraq. Nuke the place for all I care. As long as my brother comes home. Because I swear to God, nothing will ever feel right again if the last time I saw him was this Fourth of July.
bountyhunter
member
Up to and including telling them how to beat the drug tests and driving them to the pharmacy to get the stuff to do it (documented).
The problem is 18 year olds are not competent to make such decisions. We don't let them drink at that age, and it is documented their brains are not fully developed.
Yet, we allow recruiters to use fraudulent recruiting, full scale blitzes at high schools, glamor ads at stock car races and similar....
and claim they are all "volunteers".
IMHO, being a true volunteer requires:
1) truthfully informed consent
2) full adult congnizance to process that information.
18 year olds are not getting the first and do not have the second.
CentralTexas
Member
Options?
With that blanket statement logic we should not allow until the age of brain formation (whatever that is)-
any legal prosecution of them for law violations as they have "unformed brains" and can't tell right from wrong
any of them to hold any position of trust involving the public policy
allow them to touch anything dangerous or hunt etc.
be drafted when the Chinese etc invade as they will do more harm than good
"IMHO, being a true volunteer requires:
1) truthfully informed consent
-Have you seen a modern recruiting contract???
2) full adult congnizance to process that information.
-I know 18 year olds that run circles around 45 year olds mentally
as far as advertising, now there are so few military bases most kids never realize they have the option. I don't find the ads false either-
Marines are selling HooRah aren't they?
See a Marine recruiter they talk being a Marine not jobs
NAVY ships underway- not a suprise when they get on a ship is it?
Air Force shows flightlines and air crew stuff
Army shows infantry life
Not sure what you feel is concealed
It's either this or bring the draft back and while that sounds good you really don't want to work with forced labor Vs. volunteers.
WWII folks joined out of patriotism in droves then, it's a different world now.
Ask most kids coming into a recruiter why they are interested in joining and they say college, many just say that and want out of their current existence in reality.
CT
With that blanket statement logic we should not allow until the age of brain formation (whatever that is)-
any legal prosecution of them for law violations as they have "unformed brains" and can't tell right from wrong
any of them to hold any position of trust involving the public policy
allow them to touch anything dangerous or hunt etc.
be drafted when the Chinese etc invade as they will do more harm than good
"IMHO, being a true volunteer requires:
1) truthfully informed consent
-Have you seen a modern recruiting contract???
2) full adult congnizance to process that information.
-I know 18 year olds that run circles around 45 year olds mentally
as far as advertising, now there are so few military bases most kids never realize they have the option. I don't find the ads false either-
Marines are selling HooRah aren't they?
See a Marine recruiter they talk being a Marine not jobs
NAVY ships underway- not a suprise when they get on a ship is it?
Air Force shows flightlines and air crew stuff
Army shows infantry life
Not sure what you feel is concealed
It's either this or bring the draft back and while that sounds good you really don't want to work with forced labor Vs. volunteers.
WWII folks joined out of patriotism in droves then, it's a different world now.
Ask most kids coming into a recruiter why they are interested in joining and they say college, many just say that and want out of their current existence in reality.
CT
charby
Member
Hey don't pick on Iowa...
Desertdog said:
Yes, the Fabian plan worked. Make the idiots ask the wrong questions, and you do not ever have to worry about the answers.
It is not important who wields the state power – but that the state has too much power.
It must be obvious that you and your ancestors hated and still hate America – because you certainly changed it a whole lot from the way it was when you first became politically-active.
I sure wish the America-haters like you took your own advice and got the heck out, instead of screwing beyong all recognition what was once – long ago – a decent country.
miko
AZ Jeff
Member
This is probably the most succinct explanation I have ever heard as to why we have (and need to have) a military presence in the middle east.
Oleg Volk
Moderator Emeritus
Keep this civil, please.
Actually, the socialist, secular Saddam Hussein was the greatest - and closest - enemy the Al-Qaeda ever had. Only Iran compares to him in active hostility to Al-Qaeda and Taliban - even at the time when US was financing/training both.
Reminds me of a saying - for every complex problem there is a solution that is simple, elegant - and wrong.
miko
Reminds me of a saying - for every complex problem there is a solution that is simple, elegant - and wrong.
miko
CAPTAIN MIKE
Member
Oh Horse Poey
I am proud of the 30 years I spent in the military. Our military personnel today are ALL VOLUNTEERS and we should be DAMN PROUD of their patriotism and courage. The above crapola is worthless.
I am proud of the 30 years I spent in the military. Our military personnel today are ALL VOLUNTEERS and we should be DAMN PROUD of their patriotism and courage. The above crapola is worthless.
CentralTexas
Member
Charby-sorry!
Didn't mean to bang on Iowa, there are plenty of places in Texas where the excitment is watching paint peel also!
CT
Didn't mean to bang on Iowa, there are plenty of places in Texas where the excitment is watching paint peel also!
CT
wingnutx
Member
If you aren't willing to pay, then don't enlist.
CentralTexas said:
Many people are too dumb and unable to learn and do not know any more at 60 than they knew at 15. So they never realise the diffeence the age, experience and knowlege makes.
But for the rest of us it is pretty clear that a person at the age of 18 can know very little to form a rational, educated opinion on most matters. Even if they were busy educating themsleves and acquiring experience the previous years. Which most nobody does.
Male's brain is not even fully-formed until 25 or so.
Patriotism of 18-year olds and people who enlisted at 18, especially if he spent the following years without reading a decent book or forming a decent critical thought is as worthless as a patriotism of a 5-year old child.
Their bravery is also worthless because they rarely have an idea what they are risking - even if hormones allowed any idea to take root in their heads.
Don't you guys remember yourself at 18? How dumb, ignorant and hormone-driven we were?
I would deeply respect a mature man (30-35 years?) with nice family, good life and steady income sacrificing that all and risking that all in an informed decision to fight for some worthy cause. Don't see many of those.
Fred Reed, by the way, is a very intelligent, experienced and learned man who served in Vietnam and then was a reporter around the world and a police reporter. He saw plenty of examples of true bravery by people whos brains are not muddled and has no problem respecting it.
miko
Vern Humphrey
Member
Yeah, that worked great in the USSR. Once they had the Communist Revolution, they never fought any more wars.
No_Brakes23
Member
Hell no. Conscripts are crap. I would never want to work in that environment. I am so glad that my fellow Marines were all volunteers.
I would love to buy into that, but Bush is cozy with the Saudis, and until that stops, then the "War on Terrorism" is a sham. We are talking about stopping terrorists, but we are still buddy-buddy with their backers. And anyway, the poster had a good point. Our youth should not be forced to go fight some bored rich man's war. I proudly served 8 years in the Corps, with two extended combat deployments. But if I were around during 'Nam I would not have wanted to be involved in that abortion. Cleaning up after Frenchmen? No thanks.
Ignorant perhaps, but not dumb or hormone driven. Then again, I was almost 23 when I enlisted, (Someting I would NOT reccomend.)
+1 That's pretty much how I feel about it.
MikeyBee
Member
My best friend joined the Army National Guard immediately following 9/11. Years ago, we almost joined the Marines together (I went, he didn't). He graduated bootcamp at the ripe age of 34. He graduated OCS at the top of his class a year later. And guess what?... He makes a very good living working for one of NY's top advertising agencies.
Kind of puts the lie to THIS little nugget, doesn't it?
EDIT: Almost forgot... His wife just had a beautiful little girl last month.
Sam
Member
That recruiter lied and lied and lied and lied.
Thats why I only Re-enlisted 6 times.
Sam
Thats why I only Re-enlisted 6 times.
Sam
There is another way of looking at this. Our military personnel may be comprised of volunteers, but you could just as easily say that our military is also comprised entirely of mercenaries. All of them are paid for the job they do. How many of them do it so they can pay for college? How many of them do it because they thought they could make some money?
It's not like Iraq up and attacked the US, and that our young citizens signed up to prtoect us and take the fight to Iraq. No, they did it for the money.
I wounder if the recruiter told everyone coming through the door that they would be sent to another land, where anybody at any time could try to kill them because they are Americans, and that for this they wouldn't receive one red cent, I wonder how many would sign up.
While I do agree that patriotism may be a motivating factor, the most important motivation is money.
CentralTexas
Member
Miko
you quoted me for something someone else said in your post -just to be accurate...
CT
you quoted me for something someone else said in your post -just to be accurate...
CT
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