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Be careful about showing gun when responding to knock

Discussion in 'Strategies, Tactics, and Training' started by cjwils, Nov 20, 2020.

  1. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    I hope you are joking. If he has entered unlawfully, he will be hard to scare off. Making him duck would not be helpful. If you shoot when he is not entering unlawfully--perhaps forcibly--or maybe if he has not entered--shooting the gun will make you the bad guy.
     
  2. bdickens

    bdickens Member

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    That Ring doorbell camera you're so enamored of can't see around corners either.
     
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  3. White Rhino

    White Rhino Member

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    The peephole I installed is covered by a rotating metal disc inside. When I cover it with my hand and open it to look through, no change in light is visible from outside. I have also seen those movies where someone gets blasted through the peephole.
     
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  4. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    My cameras see from all sides.
     
  5. psyopspec

    psyopspec Member

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    If you can afford a decent modern automatic handgun, you can afford a camera at 1/10th the price.
     
  6. Meeks36

    Meeks36 Member

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    Why answer the door if you expect none? They can leave a note or call my phone. If im not expecting anyone I don't answer. If they take it upon themselves to try and kick my door down. Well ill handle it from cover. I know everyone situation is different. We dont have many visitors. Mainly neighborhood kid's. And that is rare. Just my opinion its worth what you paid for it.
     
  7. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    When one picks up a gun for any reason, one should know the answer to the question, "what do I intend to do with this thing?".
     
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  8. JTHunter

    JTHunter Member

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    No, not really joking. And, if he/they have entered illegally, they aren't leaving either.

    BUT, that being said, only once in 16 years here has anybody come to the front door after dark that I didn't know. The inner door is a 3x3 window in the upper half which is why the miniblind covers it. Two feet to one side is the window that I can look out while flipping on the exterior light, all without being seen. And, considering the hooks I have added to the storm door, it would take a large crowbar at least two tries to pry the door open, then the inner door has two locks. Granted, the window would be fairly easy to smash out but then they would have to climb over the door. With the long steel screws that I have added the the two strike plates in the doorframe, even a battering ram would probably have to take more than a single blow to break the jamb. By that time, I would have accessed "more potent" defenses than that .25 pistol.
    Am I afraid a "knock in the night"? No. I am just prepared for certain scenarios.
    Flashing the .25 to a pest would just be something to scare them off, not that it would be used. If I thought I might need something stronger, I would grab a 12 ga. SxS and my .357 instead.
     
  9. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    Surely you know that you may not detain anyone via deadly force or the threat of same,
     
  10. JTHunter

    JTHunter Member

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    If they have entered "illegally", they have committed a felony. They will be "proned out" and held for the police. If they attack me inside my own home, I will defend myself. After that, it is unlikely that they will be able to leave and will still be there when the police finally arrive.
     
  11. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    But if they choose to leave, they may do so. Surely you know that.
     
  12. JTHunter

    JTHunter Member

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    Not after committing a violent felony.
     
  13. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    In my old house in L.A. I was always armed. High crime area with large population of homeless mentally ill. I had security doors over all the exterior doors. With a proper security door properly installed (multiple 4" bolts securing the frame to the frame of the house and two deadbolt locks) you can open the wood door and talk to whoever is at the door through the perforated steel of the security door. They cannot get in through such a door. (Not answering the door would make them think nobody is home, their signal to go around the back and try to break in.) Several times would-be home invaders came to my house, the typical m.o. there was to try to talk the homeowner into letting them in, which of course I never did, partly by playing dumb. Honestly some of the crazies were a much bigger danger, or the possibility of a BG who just committed some other crime wanting to hide in your house.

    Now I live in a small town in Arizona which is thankfully very low-crime and very quiet. Took me months to get used to not hearing sirens and police helicopters 24/7. Nevertheless I have security doors over all the exterior doors here also, plus 3M security film on all the windows, and bolts on the inside of the garage door preventing defeating the automatic opener. In my L.A. house I unfortunately couldn't put security film because the windows were the old-fashioned type with panes of glass with wooden separators, the wood could have been broken by one punch.
     
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  14. MikeInOr

    MikeInOr Member

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    I keep a XD mod 2 compact in .45acp for middle of the night knocks on the door or bumps in the middle of the night. It slips into a robe pocket with my hand on it and nobody knows it is there. I even carry it when taking out the garbage. An AR15 slung over my sholder while taking the cans to the curb is just asking for trouble.
     
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  15. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    You are terribly mistaken.

    You may be justified in the use of deadly force to prevent a violent felony, and particularly one in which you face an imminent threat of death or serious bodily harm, but you may not use or threaten deadly force to detain a felon.

    Spend some tome reading the ST&T Sticky threads
     
  16. JDeere

    JDeere Member

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    No need to go any further than post #3...Says it all...
     
  17. Shawn Dodson

    Shawn Dodson Member

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  18. Sistema1927

    Sistema1927 Member

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    I am not going to post on a public forum what my response to an after-dark intruder would be, not wanting to jeopardize any potential defense, but I will say this: I have fully developed a set of "rules of engagement" that would both satisfy the laws of my state as well as the dictates of my conscience.
     
  19. Kleanbore

    Kleanbore Moderator Staff Member

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    To recap here....

    It should not come as a surprise to anyone that having gun in hand during an encounter with law enforcement is extremely imprudent, no matter whether one is answering the door, holding a gun on a burglar when the police arrive, or holding a gun at a crime scene after a lawful self defense incident. The victim mentioned in the OP should never have taken his gun to the door before opening it. That cannot end well.

    As has been discussed here, opening the door to a stranger is fraught with risk. One should always find out who is there before opening the door.

    Having a gun in hand is in no way an effective way to mitigate that risk. The idea that one who has first to assess the situation, make a decision, and react will be able to avoid being overcome is unrealistic.

    It adds risk, as in the case cited in the OP, where the man was shot.. And if it turns out to be someone thoughtfully coming to tell us that our rear car window is open in the rain, and the gun is seen, we will have some 'splainin' to do, so say the least.

    Yet people do it.

    Ryan Whittaker did it. We will never know what he thought he was going to do with that gun after opening the door. Clearly, he had not thought it through

    Whether the officer was justified in shooting him doesn't matter. He is dead.

    The Whittaker video does tell us something useful. It appears that Whittaker had decided to put the gun down, gently. He took too long.

    If first responders happen to arrive before we have re-holstered after a defensive use of force incident, and we should not let that happen, we need to get rid of the thing immediately--to drop it if we have to. Every tenth of a second makes us a target, and very likely, a lawful target.
     
    Meeks36 likes this.
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