Bear Attack in Canada Last Week Settle Guns vs Spray

[WisBorn]

Of course there are. That's a big part of what makes them a much more likely fatal threat. Doesn't change the bottom line though. If you want to be really be prepared against fatal animal attacks, it doesn't make sense to put a lot of effort into worrying about mountain lions and bears while ignoring the threat from dogs.

We often don't look at the threat of insects. I carry an EpiPen. Some people will be stung by bees many times in their lives, but getting attacked by a hive will have a much different outcome.
We don't argue about, what the best bug repellent is. Or the high cost of a EpiPen that saves 100s of lives each year.

 

[S.Crockett]

Not sure where this should go, or if there's already a discussion, but...

There was a grizzly attack in Canda last week that killed a couple and their dog. It appears that they did everything right. Hung their food in a tree away from camp, etc. Reports are that park rangers found their tent smashed and their e-readers out, so it looks like they might have been attacked while in their tent. What grabbed my attention was the statement "One can of bear pray had been fully discharged, but htis bear was not to be determined."

I spend a lot of time in the Alaska woods. I've long been a proponent of bear spray. (I'm in the minority on that up here.) But for about the past 7-8 years, I've also carried a revolver. Alaska's laws are such that killing a bear out of season is worth risking your life to avoid the hassle. This past hunting season, I opted to leave the revolver at home. I mean...it's an absolute boat anchor. Never, for a second, do you forget that you have it on you. I also haven't run across a bear in the wild in quite a few years. On one trip this past hunting season, we had a mechanical failure and ended up spending the night in our side by side. My hunting partner had also left his pistol at home. It was an uneventful night, aside from the cold, but that experience and this article really has me rethinking.

Needless to say, I won't be leaving the revolver behind anymore, although I may leave the spray behind from now on. I definitely no longer buy the line from US Fish and Wildlife that spray is better than bullets, although, I'm sure that debate will go on; it's not unlike the 9mm vs 45acp debate, or, for that matter, 70s disco-that crap will never die.

Here's a link to one of, I'm sure, many articles on the event.

Banff grizzly bear attack: Uncle reveals chilling final message he received from Canadian couple before deaths

The relative of one of the victims of a fatal bear attack in Canada’s Banff National Park says he received an SOS call and message from the couple.

www.foxnews.com

The correct answer is: the camping couple should’ve armed themselves with the same sidearm that Denmark issues to its Sirius Sledge Patrol soldiers assigned to the arctic areas of Greenland: the 10mm Gen4 Glock 20, assuming it’s properly loaded with something like Underwood’s 220gn coated HC slugs.

Dead bear, right there. … Wouldn’t be the first time either.

Alaskans Stop Grizzly Bear Charge with Glock 10mm On Elmendorf-Richardson

A charging grizzly bear attack was stopped with a 10mm Glock pistol on Elmendorf-Richardson in September of 2018.

www.ammoland.com

 

[JFrank]

Of course there are. That's a big part of what makes them a much more likely fatal threat. Doesn't change the bottom line though. If you want to be really be prepared against fatal animal attacks, it doesn't make sense to put a lot of effort into worrying about mountain lions and bears while ignoring the threat from dogs.

So what should we do, carry a pistol and pepper spray while on an evening stroll through the sub division?

 

[WisBorn]

The correct answer is: the camping couple should’ve armed themselves with the same sidearm that Denmark issues to its Sirius Sledge Patrol soldiers assigned to the arctic areas of Greenland: the 10mm Gen4 Glock 20, assuming it’s properly loaded with something like Underwood’s 220gn coated HC slugs.

Dead bear, right there. … Wouldn’t be the first time either.

Alaskans Stop Grizzly Bear Charge with Glock 10mm On Elmendorf-Richardson

A charging grizzly bear attack was stopped with a 10mm Glock pistol on Elmendorf-Richardson in September of 2018.

www.ammoland.com

According to post #19 it is illegal to carry a firearm in the National Park that the couple was camping in.

 

[Hartkopf]

Ironically, from a statistical standpoint, the neighbor's dog is more of a threat to your life than a mountain lion or a bear.

From 1890 to 2022 fewer than 130 persons have died in all of North America from mountain lion attacks.

From 1800 to present, fewer than 200 persons have died in all of North America from bear attacks.

Annual fatalities in the U.S. from dog attacks run about 30-50.

That means it takes mountain lions and bears combined a few decades to kill as many people as die in dog attacks every year.

Realistically, if you want to protect against animal attacks, carry your gun and/or pepper spray all the time and watch out for dogs.

Neighbors dogs are 80% of the reason I carry at home and going to get the mail.

 

[S.Crockett]

According to post #19 it is illegal to carry a firearm in the National Park that the couple was camping in.

Sounds like the Canuckastanians need to rename it, ‘Bear Food Park.’

 

[Hartkopf]

So what should we do, carry a pistol and pepper spray while on an evening stroll through the sub division?

Yes. It’s a no hassle with a good setup.

 

[TomJ]

How many who insist on the big, heavy recoiling calibers actually practice at least somewhat realistically with them?

Ive posted some of this guys videos before and he has some good info to be gained from them. I agree with his conclusions too. If I were to be wandering around somewhere where Im actually "in" the food chain, Im carrying a handgun in the most realistic caliber I can shoot best with in a realistic manner and one that has as much on board ammo as I can get. And personally, Id be happier it was a backup to a short and handy auto 12ga. too.

10mm & 44 mag vs Charging Bear Target

I revisit the 10mm vs 44 mag for bear defense question with the new and improved charging bear target and get some really interesting results.

www.youtube.com

A number of years ago I bought a Ruger 454 Casull. I couldn't hit anything with it and wound up replacing it with a 10mm, the largest caliber I could shoot accurately.

 

[JFrank]

Sounds like the Canuckastanians need to rename it, ‘Bear Food Park.’

Tough deal in Canada , no open carry or allowed in their parks. In Yellowstone we can carry firearms but it’s Illegal to shoot a bear.

 

[torchroadster]

How many who insist on the big, heavy recoiling calibers actually practice at least somewhat realistically with them?

Ive posted some of this guys videos before and he has some good info to be gained from them. I agree with his conclusions too. If I were to be wandering around somewhere where Im actually "in" the food chain, Im carrying a handgun in the most realistic caliber I can shoot best with in a realistic manner and one that has as much on board ammo as I can get. And personally, Id be happier it was a backup to a short and handy auto 12ga. too.

10mm & 44 mag vs Charging Bear Target

I revisit the 10mm vs 44 mag for bear defense question with the new and improved charging bear target and get some really interesting results.

www.youtube.com

This is a very important point. I've recently started reloading for .44 Magnum, mainly to facilitate more affordable practice with my Ruger Super Redhawk Alaskan (2.5" barrel). I don't have a moving bear target but I can set up multiple targets and work on quick transitions. It is very challenging to fire this gun quickly and accurately with high power loads. This combined with the consideration there are only 6 rounds available before a reload is necessary has me thinking more about the 10mm semi auto.

I spend summer months in southeast Alaska, frequently in the wilderness, so this is a very real situation for me to prepare for.

 

[S.Crockett]

This combined with the consideration there are only 6 rounds available before a reload is necessary has me thinking more about the 10mm semi auto.
I spend summer months in southeast Alaska, frequently in the wilderness, so this is a very real situation for me to prepare for.

Seems more folks are reaching that conclusion ... From August 2022:

Charged by a Grizzly: A 10mm Glock (and Serious Practice) Saved My Life

Sam Kezar fired seven rounds amid a split-second grizzly charge. Those shots, plus one from his buddy, saved him from being mauled.

www.outdoorlife.com

 

[The Night Rider]

There was a grizzly attack in Canda last week that killed a couple and their dog. It appears that they did everything right. Hung their food in a tree away from camp, etc. Reports are that park rangers found their tent smashed and their e-readers out, so it looks like they might have been attacked while in their tent. What grabbed my attention was the statement "One can of bear pray had been fully discharged, but htis bear was not to be determined."

I've only ever seen one grizzly bear in my life that was in Yellowstone and it actually caused a Bear Jam. I actually remember some stupid woman getting out of her car with her kids and walking up to where the bear was at to get a better look.


This is actually the last place I saw a bear in Colorado Springs and I actually took that picture several years before I saw the bear. That for those familiar with Colorado Springs that is on the southwest corner of circle and Venetucci just south of Cheyenne Ghettos.

That open space is just North of Microchip. I was doing rounds one morning just about Dawn and I walked out on the patio behind the break room in the building. I looked down and there was a bear walking through the woods just outside the fence.

I personally have never had an encounter with a bear that didn't end with the bear running away.

Anyway having said all that, from my non-expert understanding if you use bear spray on a bear you have to do it at a distance.

According to Saber Red,which apparently also makes bear spray, if you use an OC can designed for use on humans by the time you can actually hit the bear with the spray it will be so close to you that it's momentum will continue to bring it forward and it'll run right into you.

Similarly, if these Canadians woke up with the Bear right outside their tent and sprayed it from 2 ft away it's going to get them anyway.

I have never had to spray a bear but I am still willing to trust in bear spray over going immediately to guns.

 

[JR24]

Always kept a .44 on my hip in Alaska when we went near bear country. Typically had a 12 gauge with magnum slugs in the boat too.

Then again, the only times I went to where the browns were up river was for fishing, and we often cleaned them on the bank.

Saw a few in my years there, but nothing hairy thankfully.

Truthfully I was always more nervous about spooking a moose in the woods or especially on the tundra.

 

[Golfanaticshooter]

When in Bear Country I'll be "Staying Alive" by being armed.

 

[Mk-211]

bear sits next to guy

credit to Drew Hammond

youtu.be

Unfortunately, many people see videos like this and think these bears can't kill them in seconds.

 

[TomJ]

So what should we do, carry a pistol and pepper spray while on an evening stroll through the sub division?

I do. I'll go for walks down a road by my house and from time to time I'll come across a dog running free. I don't know who they belong to. I carry a gun regularly and add pepper spray when I go for a walk as I'd rather use that if necessary as I'd hate to shoot a dog unless I had no choice.

 

[mikey98e]

We just got back from the White Mountains camping and hiking for 5 weeks. We always carry bear spray and I carry a 686+ with Buffalo Bore bullets. I'll practice for a month or so before we go. We've come upon females with cubs several times and they run away.
-mike

 

[JFrank]

I do. I'll go for walks down a road by my house and from time to time I'll come across a dog running free. I don't know who they belong to. I carry a gun regularly and add pepper spray when I go for a walk as I'd rather use that if necessary as I'd hate to shoot a dog unless I had no choice.

Sorry bro I’m done going off topic, if the mods want to do it that’s another story.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Nope, AFAIK there is but a single recorded instance of a grizzly/brownie actually eating a human after killing it. While anything is possible, this just doesn’t fit these bears’ behavior.

Not exactly right. Most reports don't go into whether or not the people were eaten. Eaten or not, they are usually just described as being mauled. Some mauled people will live. Some will die. Some of the dead are partially consumed (when found). Many are recovered before the bear had eaten, assuming it was hanging around to go ahead and eat the person later, as they do with other kills and have been done in documented cases.

I can think of 2 people off the top of my head that were partially consumed. That would be Timothy Treadwell and his girlfriend. That would double (if you were only thinking of Treadwell) or triple (if you had someone else in mind) the sample size you reported. The bear was still hanging around to be killed (also very old) and stomach contents analyzed.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/horrifying-death-couple-eaten-alive-30886184 (graphic audio)

Here are a couple more...

1932

The Border Cities Star - Google News Archive Search

2011 Whether this bear killed its 2nd victim isn't clear. It attacked and killed one, and months later was at the scene of another person's death and was had partially consumed the body along with 3 other bears.

Yellowstone Bear Euthanized After DNA Evidence Links Two Fatal Attacks

Warning signs at Yellowstone National Park inform park visitors of trail closures and bear sightings on specific dates ...

archive.nytimes.com

2018 Sow and cubs

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/oklahoma-man-dead-bears-1.4849513

2019 Dragged away and partially consumed

Frenchman killed by a bear in Canada

He was surprised in full sleep. A Frenchman was killed by a bear while camping on August 15 in the territories of western Canada. A body was found the next day, in the afternoon, in a wild area in …

web.archive.org

In many cases, time needs to elapse before the bear will consume the kill. They will bury/cover the kill or guard the area until they are ready to eat, part of the reason offending bears are sometimes found very near to the kill site. With that said, does it really matter if the bear consumes the person or not?

What is interesting is that there is a small trend, even with these citations, to note that grizzly/brown bears, when in dietary distress, do eat humans at times. It isn't abnormal ("doesn't fit the bear's behavior"), just not common, the difference being is that it is certainly within their spectrum of known behaviors to consume people.

First off, there is no 40s&w +p.

The ammo described was not incorrect. Buffalo Bore does sell rounds as .40 S&W +P. That is their designation for anyone wanting to buy that load.

Heavy .40 +P Smith & Weson Pistol & Handgun Ammunition

Heavy .40 +P Smith & Wesson Field Proven pistol and handgun ammo. Maximum firepower bullets. Best ammunition for pistols and handguns for sale. Buffalo Bore. Strictly big bore. Strictly Business.

www.buffalobore.com

 

[hey smepl this]

Right. Their numbers and proximity are a big part of why they're hundreds of times more likely to be involved in a fatal attack than a bear or lion. The why of it doesn't really matter from a practical perspective. Dead is dead.

On this board, I don’t think you’ll have to work too hard to convince us to carry a pistol to guard against dog attacks lol

 

[The Night Rider]

I find the posts by the "If I ever ... in bear country" people quite amusing. It's like me pontificating on how to deal with alligators or copperheads.

I'm not sure why, black bears are far more prevalent than copperheads or alligators.

The only states that are not known to have any black bears in them are Wyoming (which I find amazing), North and South Dakota, Nebraska, Hawaii (Duh), iowa, Kansas, Mississippi, Illinois, Indiana and Texas ( which is another weird one because you would think that North East Texas would be full of them

 

[JFrank]

I won’t be shooting my neighbors dog any time soon. I do have a walking /hiking stick if I need to shoo off a pack of wild Pugs.

 

[The Night Rider]

So what should we do, carry a pistol and pepper spray while on an evening stroll through the sub division?

You mean you don't?

 

[tommy.duncan]

The ammo described was not incorrect. Buffalo Bore does sell rounds as .40 S&W +P. That is their designation for anyone wanting to buy that load.

I stand corrected!!
This is the first I have ever seen this ammo.

 

[JohnKSa]

I won’t be shooting my neighbors dog any time soon.

Probably not. That thought should be a comfort since you're even less likely to have to shoot a bear.