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Been Hankering After A Flintlock Long Gun

Discussion in 'Blackpowder' started by tpelle, Jan 12, 2014.

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  1. tpelle

    tpelle Member

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    Subject tells the tale. I've decided I "need" a flintlock long gun, but don't want to spend a lot of money. Mostly I'm just curious, as one who is interested in history, about finding out how to make one fire accurately and reliably, how to load it and clean it, etc.

    In the bit of research I've done so far, I have decided that I prefer a full-stock weapon, not one of those half-stock "Hawken" types. Since my main area of interest is the American Civil War, I kind of am leaning towards something that a state guard/militia unit may have marched off to war with after drawing pre-percussion-era weapons that had been stored in an armory for many years.

    I'm not a reinactor, so I don't need the last word in historical accuracy, nor am I a hunter, so I don't need the last word in ballistic accuracy either. I'm just looking for a weapon that I can have fun learning and researching with. (Of course, accurate weapons ARE more interesting.)

    Where is a good place to look for a place to buy such a weapon and its accessories, and where I won't have to raid my 401(K)?
     
  2. HUnter58

    HUnter58 Member

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    Might try this place:

    http://thegunworks.com/

    Click on top button Custom and production guns -then used production -
    then rifles.

    Might be something you may be interested in there. Good folks to work with.
     
  3. kwhi43@kc.rr.com

    [email protected] Member

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    Harpers Ferry From Dixie Might Work

    c012b84d2627b03b676d6bc98cdefb85.gif
     
  4. Steel Horse Rider

    Steel Horse Rider Member

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  5. Palehorseman

    Palehorseman Member

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    It is true that at the start of the CW, some confederates were armed with flintlocks. But it is also true that any village gunsmith worth his salt, north or south, was well versed in changing over flintlocks to percussion, it was almost a cottage industry.
     
  6. Palehorseman

    Palehorseman Member

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    Take a look here: http://www.middlesexvillagetrading.com/

    Some will have a kicking screaming fit at the mere mention of Middlesex Village guns, but I have seen some fairly descent ones from them.
     
  7. Pete D.

    Pete D. Member

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    Flint

    Flintlock long gun you say?
    0897b08e.jpg
     
  8. eastbank

    eastbank Member

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    i use a .50 cal pedersoli blue ridge full lenth flint lock rifle for hunting and fun,it has been very reliable and i have killed several deer with it and its one hell of a sparker with black 3/4 english flints. i sold my two TC flinters as this rifle is a better sparker. the frizzen is the heart of a flinter, with a bad frizzen you just are carrying a long stick. the only part i heard that was a small problem is the frizzen spring that holds the frizzen closed untill the hammer rocks it open at firing. i have not had any problems with mine in over five years. eastbank.
     

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  9. Palehorseman

    Palehorseman Member

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    Couple of mine I put together.

    P1010454.jpg

    P1010449.jpg
     
  10. tpelle

    tpelle Member

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    So what's the story on these - why would people object to them?

    Are these the ones from India that folks complain of them not being proofed?

    Honestly, that doesn't seem to be too much of a problem to me. Load 'em up with a very heavy charge, tie 'em down to an old tire or something, run a long string from the trigger, get behind something substantial and pull the trigger. Do it again with a somewhat lighter charge, but still heavier than normal. If it survives, it's "proofed".
     
  11. kwhi43@kc.rr.com

    [email protected] Member

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    You don't think that's a problem? Would you buy a S&W 357 or Ruger 44 mag
    that has not been proofed? Let them leave it up to the buyer to proof them? :banghead:
     
  12. tpelle

    tpelle Member

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    All I'm saying is that it's a whole lot easier for someone to load a proof charge in a muzzleloader, and fire it under controlled conditions, than it would be to "proof" a modern cartridge weapon.
     
  13. Pete D.

    Pete D. Member

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    Proofing

    Not all American made flintlocks are proofed. The store bought guns are....Lyman, Thompson Center, Knight, etc.
    But.....buy a custom made gun from one of the many talented craftsmen making and selling....probably not.
    Pete
     
  14. fdf

    fdf Member

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  15. Loyalist Dave

    Loyalist Dave Member

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    Folks object to the guns in India as they have not been sent to a proof house for testing as the Italian guns are tested. Others object to the various quality of the completed guns.

    NO THEY ARE NOT

    Here are some myths and some facts about "proofing".

    1) To use the phrase "proofed barrel", it MUST have been tested and stamped by one of the internationally certified proof houses located in various countries around the world. An importer or maker who claims they have "proofed" their barrels in-house is fraudulent. They can test their product, but they are not a proof house, they cannot "proof" a barrel. Some places that make this claim merely fire a test charge, and some actually do a good "test", but that's all that it is. It is no more valid than you firing a test charge then having your barrel magnafluxed to look for damage unseen by the naked eye. to be fair I think that folks that misuse the term "proofed" for their home tested barrels do so because of a lack of understanding... not dishonesty.

    2) It is not simply firing a large powder charge. Every proof house has it's own black powder standard, and they each vary quite a bit. Folks seem to think that as modern cartridges are universal in the pressures and in testing at these houses... the same applies for black powder proofing... IT DOES NOT.

    3) NONE of the barrels made in America carry a proof mark, unless a person has sent that barrel after-market for private testing to a proof house. Barrels made in Japan are also not proofed. I mention this as muskets made in Japan that are decades old are not scoffed at for lack of proof.

    4) Proofing at one of these houses establishes that the barrel passed the proofing test ONCE, and passed to that house's standard. Whether or not that barrel is still "safe" when you are near it when it is shot, depends on whether or not the owner has properly maintained the barrel. It is easy to neglect a black powder barrel to the point where it is unsafe to fire. Many people are under the impression that once proofed = always safe. This is quite wrong.

    Examples of proofing standards; Italian proofed barrels are fired with 140% of the main charge, plus one projectile, and every barrel is tested. Spanish barrels are fired at 200% with a single projectile, BUT they random test some from a "batch" then certify them all in that batch. English Barrels (iirc) are fired with 250% of the main charge, and two projectiles, and every barrel is tested. So it's quite possible that a barrel that was proofed to the Italian standard, could fail when the English standard was applied.

    Getting back to the thread..., The Lyman GPR is a great over-the-counter flintlock, and the Pedersoli made Blue Ridge Hunter from Cabela's is also pretty good. A used Thompson Center Hawken with a good bore is also a good rifle. You'd do well with any of those in .54. You'd have fun, they are accurate, and they take deer if you decide to go hunting.

    Every BP rifle, production or custom, will have quirks, and due to the complexity, you can't go "cheap" on a flinter.

    LD
     
  16. StrawHat

    StrawHat Member

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    With flintlocks you get what you pay for. It is never wise to cheap out when buying a flintlock. More money buys you a better lock and maybe better styling. I have an 1803 Harpers Ferry imported by Navy Arms in the 70s. I like it a lot but have done a lot of fiddling with the lock to get it to spark to my satisfaction. As for proofing etc. I buy from reliable sources and trust their judgement, whether complete firearms or parts.
     
  17. Pete D.

    Pete D. Member

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    Loyalist Dave: thanks for that info.... I stand corrected.

    Pete
     
  18. Loyalist Dave

    Loyalist Dave Member

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    I'm Sorry

    ... to Pete D and folks on this thread, as I looked again at my previous post and it was gruff... and it should not have been :eek:

    ... I neglected to mention that there are some small sellers/makers out there that will tell you that they "proof" their barrels before selling them to the customer..., I've seen one that says they proof to the "old English standard" (whatever that is), and they have a YouTube video showing a barrel getting proofed to what is barely the Italian test...I didn't want folks to be duped by such claims.

    Now the majority of the big name folks have a long history of testing and quality control, which is why they have good reputations. Shipping barrels to Birmingham England would be a waste of time for them and added costs to the consumer without adding safety.

    Again if one is at all concerned about a barrel that was never proofed, one could test fire a barrel using 120 grains as the basis for the absolute max shooting load (because most adjustable measures go that high), use the proper granulation 1Fg, 2Fg etc for the powder, and a couple of projectiles..., then have the barrel Magnafluxed and that would be pretty good... do so at your own risk, however,

    LD
     
  19. INGarand

    INGarand Member

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    First question is how much would you be willing to spend? Being from Nothern Ky, there are many black powder clubs in the area. Buck Snort has a trade show where there are many venders selling rifles. Lots of gun builders in the area also. The guns from India are fine for someone who has some experince with flintlocks since some need some tuning. Take some time and look around the area and check out the different types and good luck shooting.
     
  20. Hanshi

    Hanshi Member

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    Although I ordered significant alterations when I had this "early Lancaster" built, it is quite representative of Rev War longrifles. You don't have to get a replica (copy) of any particular rifle to be authentic. Check with Matt at TVM.

    PICT0624-3.jpg
     
  21. alsask

    alsask Member

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    Pedersoli would be my first choice for a "long rifle flint lock" off the rack. As to the Indian made guns I have never seen one with rifling so they would not even be in the running for me.
     
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