bell or no bell

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by conan32120, May 6, 2021.

  1. conan32120

    conan32120 Member

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    i am new to this site but not new to reloading but i do enjoy reading the opinions of others, that being said as a matter of curiosity i would like to ask, do you bell or no bell when loading berrys bullets in .45 and 9mm brass?
     
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  2. Lafitte

    Lafitte Member

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    Bell or flare the case just enough to prevent "shaving" the bullet and start the bullet easily. Extra flare simply overworks the brass.
    Lafitte
     
  3. Blue68f100

    Blue68f100 Member

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    All depends on the bullet base and construction. If it has a rounded base it can be done without any if you chamfuer the mouth. Or in any case you need enough flare so it does not shave the bullet. On a flat base lead you will need enough flare for the bullet to start without shaving the lead.

    If I recall Berry's has a radius base, so just a little is required.
     
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  4. WeekendReloader

    WeekendReloader Member

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    Berry's are plated lead. The copper plating is very thin.
    Bell / flare the case mouth enough that the bullet can start into the case. If you don't bell / flare the case mouth, you will shave some of the copper off the bullets. If you're lucky, you'll see the copper slivers. If unlucky, you'll get a copper sliver splinter under your skin. Been there, done that. Ouch!
     
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  5. Average Joe

    Average Joe Member

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    If you don' flair the case, you'll find it's very difficult to insert the projectile.
     
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  6. mcb

    mcb Member

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    I use very little flare with Berry's plated, the bullets usually have a nice fillet around the base and in my experience does not seem to need much flare at all to ensure the case mouth does not dig. Likewise don't over crimp Berry's plated either. Over crimping leads to some unusual behaving where the plating peals off the bullets in strips at the rifling marks. Some guns exacerbate this problem with sharper riflings.
     
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  7. jmorris

    jmorris Member

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    With the right seater I can use so little bell/flare you can’t “see” that the case is different than a sized case.

    You only “need” the amount that allows you to seat a bullet without messing it up. If that equals zero, you don’t need any.
     
  8. Bartojc

    Bartojc Member

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    As has been said the smallest bell you can get away with. Just so you do not shave the plating off. If you can see the bell it might be too much.

    -Jeff
     
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  9. reddog81

    reddog81 Member

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    Every sizer die I have brings the mouth diameter to a few .001's under spec. If I was setting up my dies and didn't need to flare the case mouth a bit I be wondering what is going on because either the bullets are too small or the sizer die is not setup correctly.
     
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  10. Herman B

    Herman B Member

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    Handgun brass gets a bell and only just enough so as not to unnecessarily work the brass. I also chamfer new brass.
     
  11. mdi

    mdi Member

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    I often tell new casters, lead bullet loaders to flare the case mouth as much as needed to start the bullet straight and to not shave/scrape the bullet. The flare will be removed in the next step; crimping or as I like to describe it, "deflaring with a crimp die". Too much flare is when the case mouth scrapes the inside of the bullet seating die (or won't enter). I suggest it's better to get good shootable handloads now and worry about case life later. K.I.S.S....
     
  12. Bill M.

    Bill M. Member

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    I bell with Berrys Bullets. I bought one of the M type expanders because I like the shape of the belling better with it than with the Lee expander.
     
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  13. dh1633pm
    • Contributing Member

    dh1633pm Contributing Member

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    I was going to answer, but everyone already did such a great job. Just enough was the answer my dad always gave me. And that was in the 80's.
     
  14. jmorris

    jmorris Member

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    Millions of rounds a year are loaded without any flare, most folks don’t flare rifle rounds at all.

    Using GSI bullet feeders, that hold the bullet as it’s being seated this is how little flare I use with my coated (more delicate than Berry’s plated) bullets.

    The seated bullet has yet to be crimped and the case behind it will have a bullet seated in it on the down stroke.

    A2236EA3-8D78-4EC4-8634-404B181265D0.jpeg
     
  15. FROGO207

    FROGO207 Member

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    I was shown when using a lead (or powder coated) bullet that you always flared the mouth enough that a bullet could be inserted and pushed down by hand so you could then lift the round up slightly without it seperating. if I am using a bullet to open up a brass neck I always inside chamfer first.
     
  16. Otto

    Otto Member

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    Flaring the case mouth should not exceed 0.020" greater than the original case diameter.
    Using 9mm mixed brass and HAPs, my average flare is around 0.007". This results in a case gage failure rate of less than 1%.
     
  17. Nature Boy
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    Nature Boy Contributing Member

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    Having read all of this I might be flairing my pistol brass a bit too much.
     
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  18. NMexJim

    NMexJim Member

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    I think it would depend on how your systems works best. If you can avoid all flares without problems, then good on you.

    Personally, I flare just a hair for jacketed pistol bullets, and most especially a little bit more for oversized plated and lead. IMO, there’s really no reason not to, and I find it makes bullet feed easier and straighter.

    No, I don’t flare rifle at all.
     
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  19. GeoDudeFlorida

    GeoDudeFlorida Member

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    I have my dies set to open the case mouth up about five thousandths (0.005") OVER the average base diameter. I check a random selection of bullets, get the average, then grab a random selection of brass and set the flare die so they average out correctly. If my average bullet is .452", then I'll flare my average case to .457" based on my random sample of setup cases.

    That's a lot, by the way, but it makes seating smoother and I don't get any scraped or shaved bullets. I also don't get any cocked or crooked since I am starting seating by hand and pushing them in a good ways - 50-75 thousandths at least. I only use a single-stage press, never a progressive or automated press, so my answer will be different from the high-volume reloaders.
     
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  20. GeoDudeFlorida

    GeoDudeFlorida Member

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    I do if I'm loading lead - includes coated or plated lead - even with gas checks.
     
  21. mdi

    mdi Member

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    What symptoms of "too much flare" are you experiencing? Too much is when the case won't enter the seating die...
     
  22. jmorris

    jmorris Member

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    Of course there is the “If it ain’t broke...” aspect of success.
     
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  23. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

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    If I don't flare the 45 Auto case the plating strips to the outside of the case. My die hardly has enough adjustment to flare the case enough to prevent this. I gave up on those bullets because of the hassle involved loading them.
     
  24. Virginia Jim

    Virginia Jim Member

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    In my loading notes I document the amount of flare for each different load. Also a note as to if it’s correct for the particular bullet I’m using. Back when brass was cheap, I didn’t worry about overworking brass. Now I want my brass to last as long as possible.
     
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  25. Fatelvis

    Fatelvis Member

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    I agree with Bill...
    The M-type die seems to work better for loading plated and cast bullets for me.
     
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