Benelli B77 manual problems

[HisSoldier]

Most people have never seen a Benelli automatic, I have the B80 which is chambered in 30 Luger. The same basic gun will easily convert to 9MM by a barrel change I think, so in order to handle the pressure all the Benelli's I've seen, both 7.65MM and 9MM have what is called a "Delayed" blowback system, or even more descriptive, an inertially delayed blowback system, which is really a locked breech when in action.

The way it works is that upon firing the frame and barrel begin to move sharply back, but the slide, because of inertia, resists movement, it wants to stay where it was very much, and that force is used to push a moving breech block (Bolt) down into it's firing position, which is at the bottom of a .060" inclined surface. There is a small toggle piece at the back of this bolt that goes up at about a 45 degree angle to a socket at the back inner surface at the bottom of the slide.
I'd guess the force pushing the bolt down into that battery position is several hundred pounds, depending on how hot the load is. It's very cool stuff to a mechanic like myself, it's elegant.

So last night I'm looking at the manual that came with the gun, and it calls the action simply blowback, with no mention of this lovely retard locking system, Had I designed it I'd be crowing about it!
Then I looked at the line drawings that show the section views of the gun and looky there! No toggle piece! there are three or four sectioned drawings inside the manual and not one showing any indication of any locking system.

"Hmm", I think, "Maybe the first ones were simple blowback guns?" But then I look at the box which has another 3D sectioned drawing with the toggle! In any case, with a separate light bolt it makes no sense to make it without the toggle as a one piece slide is much simpler to make, and also inadequate for the pressures as well.

So, though it was made in very limited numbers I thought I'd ask if anyone in the forum has seen one that is a blowback, lacking the toggle piece.

Oh, and yes, I know they also made target .22's, and may still make them, but they always come with the huge target grips, while the ones shown in the manual are clearly higher power chambering and the same manual says as much.
Look up Benelli pistol in World guns, you'll see the locking toggle.

 

[Walkalong]

I had a 9MM, and foolishly sold it. I now have one in .32 Long, and it is home to stay.

The .32 is straight blowback.

 

[Monac]

Benelli pistols of the type HisSoldier has were also made in blowback form, without the toggle mechanism. Very early production guns were blowbacks in 32 ACP, for no reason that anyone seems able to explain. Later, blowback guns were made in 9mm Police (aka 9x18mm but not Makarov, aka 9mm Ultra but not the German WWII one). Finally, there were the the 32 Long target models like Walkalong has.

The Benelli's were nice guns, but the factory kept tinkering with them, and there are many variations. When Benelli ceased production, they sold a lot of them off in the US in 30 Luger, with spare 9mm barrels. You needed a gunsmith to swap barrels, I think, so I don't know if many people ever did it.

 

[lifesizepotato]

I like to think I have some familiarity with the centerfire Benellis...



B76 Sport, MP3S 9mm, MP3S 32S&W, and B77

All of the 32acp B77 models were indeed simple blowback. The 9mm models had the unique toggle system.

 

[bannockburn]

lifesizepotato

Nice Benelli collection you have there. I had a B76 but never quite warmed up to it. Fit and finish were great as was the accuracy, but the grip angle didn't fit my smaller hand size and the grip frame itself seemed rather wide for a single stack 9mm. I also thought the toggle system, while rather unique and interesting, had way too many small parts to it.

 

[lifesizepotato]

It's not really a practical design in most respects, especially as viewed from 2015. As a cool range gun though, they do quite well. Only real downside I've encountered is the propensity for slide bite.

 

[Monac]

lifesizepotato, I see that the fixed-sight Benelli in your photo is an early production model. Is it 32 ACP or 9mm Parabellum? And what are the target models? 30 Luger, 9mm Para, and 32 Long?

BTW, bannockburn, the grips on the target models are REALLY bulky. The design crew at Benelli must have had big hands.

 

[bannockburn]

lifesizepotato

Never had a problem with slide bite but did notice that the thumb safety had gotten quite loose after awhile. Ever have that problem with any of your Benellis?

 

[lifesizepotato]

did notice that the thumb safety had gotten quite loose after awhile. Ever have that problem with any of your Benellis?

Not yet, and they're actually all pretty stiff. I had a more thoroughly used B76 before those and the safety was a little looser maybe but not to the point that I'd call it a problem.

I see that the fixed-sight Benelli in your photo is an early production model. Is it 32 ACP or 9mm Parabellum? And what are the target models? 30 Luger, 9mm Para, and 32 Long?

The fixed sight gun is the B77 in 32acp. Two of the target models, as mentioned under the photo, are the rare SAO MP3S variants in 9mm and 32S&W, and the third is a B76 Sport, which is DA/SA and in 9mm.

There was also a B80 Sport in 30 Luger.

 

[Monac]

Thanks, lifesizepotato. Those are all nice guns. I thought the 9mm Sport had a normal slide, without the muzzle weight, but with adjustable sights. Like I said, there are a lot of variations of the Benelli B76 series.

 

[Walkalong]

The fixed sight gun is the B77 in 32acp

I am jealous, very nice.

 

[lifesizepotato]

Thanks, lifesizepotato. Those are all nice guns. I thought the 9mm Sport had a normal slide, without the muzzle weight, but with adjustable sights. Like I said, there are a lot of variations of the Benelli B76 series.

There were also some regular B76s with the adjustable sights, but they weren't considered Sport models. The Sports and MP3Ses also had nicely polished slides instead of the utilitarian matte blue job on the regular guns.