SJ78
Member
Is it true that Beretta will be doing away with this model ? I saw someone mention this online and said get them while you can. i already have one but was just wondering if it's true ? Thanks
Beretta 92fs question
- Thread starter SJ78
- Start date
- Status
XavierBreath
Member
If they are, there are plenty of them around to be bought. I wouldn't worry about difficulty in obtaining one in the next few years.
SJ78
Member
Thanks
SJ78
Member
I also think it's a stupid idea. The 92
is a great handgun . Why mess up a good thing .
is a great handgun . Why mess up a good thing .
XavierBreath
Member
I don't know guys.....
You know Colt quit making the 1911 and in so doing, forced the military to transition to the M9........
XavierBreath
Member
I think Kimber tried, but the had a problem following the specs.........
KegCommando
Member
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2008
- Messages
- 179
Since you are based in CA, what you may be hearing is a half-truth distorted a couple of times.
I often hear various twists for several handguns at stores.
Just in case you aren't aware, and this will be a quick crash course, but you can't purchase a handgun from a dealer unless it is on the CA Roster of Certified Handguns ( http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/ ). A manufacture must submit for "safety" testing 3 guns of a model they wish to sell to basically be destroyed. If it meets the reqs, that specific model can be sold. The handgun is certified for two years, and at the end of the two years, the manufacturer, and only the manufacturer can opt to pay a fee to have that model remain on the list.
Unfortunately a manufacturer may decide they don't want to pony up, especially if it is a model they don't make or sell many of, and let it drop off the list. Most of the time, nobody has any idea if something will drop off the list.
So when something approaches their expiration period, I hear retailers say to get it while you can because it won't be available in xx days. The one I hear a lot now is that both Sig and H&K have publicly stated they will no longer submit handguns for testing. I have not found anything to verify that, so I wonder if that is their tactic to sell the most expensive items in the store.
Now, the 92fs is listed as not expiring until Dec 2009, so you have at least a year, assuming that what you heard is false, and it would be my guess that to be the case since the M9 isn't going anywhere in the immediate future.
I often hear various twists for several handguns at stores.
Just in case you aren't aware, and this will be a quick crash course, but you can't purchase a handgun from a dealer unless it is on the CA Roster of Certified Handguns ( http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/ ). A manufacture must submit for "safety" testing 3 guns of a model they wish to sell to basically be destroyed. If it meets the reqs, that specific model can be sold. The handgun is certified for two years, and at the end of the two years, the manufacturer, and only the manufacturer can opt to pay a fee to have that model remain on the list.
Unfortunately a manufacturer may decide they don't want to pony up, especially if it is a model they don't make or sell many of, and let it drop off the list. Most of the time, nobody has any idea if something will drop off the list.
So when something approaches their expiration period, I hear retailers say to get it while you can because it won't be available in xx days. The one I hear a lot now is that both Sig and H&K have publicly stated they will no longer submit handguns for testing. I have not found anything to verify that, so I wonder if that is their tactic to sell the most expensive items in the store.
Now, the 92fs is listed as not expiring until Dec 2009, so you have at least a year, assuming that what you heard is false, and it would be my guess that to be the case since the M9 isn't going anywhere in the immediate future.
GZOh_Jr
Member
It will be interesting to see what happens. I agree that it would be tough for them to cut out the 92FS/M9 cold turkey. Add to this that the Storm supposedly isn't selling well (might be a strong performer, but ugly compared to the Cougar it replaced). I don't know about the 90-2, but I think it is hideously ugly as well. I would love to snag a 92, but would likely immediately turn around and sell a 90-2 if given one.
SJ78
Member
Yes the law in California on hadnguns is over the top. I hear now private parties cant even send them for sale into the state . I wanted to ask if a gun goes off the safety list ! does that mean you cant own it ? or does it just apply to buying anymore ones ?
uh-oh
Member
SJ78, the law about sending handguns into the state is not a prohibition, and I found out about it when I was going to sell a 96 to a guy in CA. I went to my dealer and he said he wouldn't ship it because the FFL shipping into CA must obtain special permission from the CADOJ to ship the firearm into the state, and I think all deliveries into the state must be sent by an FFL holder. He wouldn't jump through the hoops (and I found out none of my other local dealers would, either) to ship a gun to CA. My dealer was kind enough to photocopy the letter he got in June regarding the new requirements, and I was able to find the statutes on the CADOJ's website (which is definitely NOT user friendly) after searching for a while because it seems even they don't want the residents to know the laws they contrive.
To the OP, the 92 is not going out of production any time soon. The 90two came out and I heard dealers using it as leverage to get people to buy more 92s. I don't see why that would help them unless they actually believed they would need to get inventory off the shelf of what would become discontinued items. Also, the 90two usually retails for more than the 92, but sales have been kinda flat because BUSA is really lagging in marketing new products.
To the OP, the 92 is not going out of production any time soon. The 90two came out and I heard dealers using it as leverage to get people to buy more 92s. I don't see why that would help them unless they actually believed they would need to get inventory off the shelf of what would become discontinued items. Also, the 90two usually retails for more than the 92, but sales have been kinda flat because BUSA is really lagging in marketing new products.
KegCommando
Member
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2008
- Messages
- 179
SJ78 said:
If someone already has it they can still own it. That person can also still sell it to another individual.
The restriction is that dealers can no longer sell it except for inventory in stock.
Since all out of state transfers even from individuals are considered dealer sales, you would also not be allowed to obtain it from a private party from out of state. You could only get one that is already in the state. The exception is if it is a gift from a father/mother/grandfather/grandmother/son/daughter. LEO's are also exempt but I believe they have to have a letter from their dept saying it is ok.
SJ78
Member
Thanks for the info . I've noticed alot of guns arent on the California certified list anymore. I havent seen Colt revolvers . This whole safety thing is crazy .
They were safe enough for years before and now they arent . Go figure
They were safe enough for years before and now they arent . Go figure
Lone_Gunman
Member
I bet few of those guns ever come out of the shoulder rigs.
NavyLCDR
member
KegCommando,
Why are out of state private party transfers considered to be dealer sales in California?
KegCommando
Member
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2008
- Messages
- 179
My info is based on speaking with 2 different FFL dealers when I wanted to make a private party purchase.
1 FFL dealer may have had their own agenda trying to make me purchase something brand new from them. The other FFL only deals with xfers, so I doubt it was in his interest to steer me wrong.
But in any case, I am not a lawyer so can't interpret all the legalese, so take it all with a grain of salt and do your own research. If you visit http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/ at the top they have a notice and it makes it look like private party is ok. If you download the summary of laws pdf on the left hand side (page 42 I believe) , it is a little confusing because it talks about the restrictions, and under exemptions it lists private party.
But this is what was explained to me:
CA treats all out of state private party as a local sale from the local FFL. That way they can charge you sales tax. So since it is now a local in state sale, you are bound by the certified handgun list. So they win two ways, one you can't find an easy bypass to their restriction, and two they can collect money from you. I can understand the first as a way to make sure you aren't getting past a loophole, but I totally disagree with the second. Since you are not paying the sales price to the FFL dealer, it should not be considered a taxable sale.
Now I did speak to a third FFL, but not specifically about handguns because I had already made my purchase and was no longer in the market, about rifles, and he did say that I would have to pay sales tax. So that may or may not be a confirmation that out of state sales are treated as in state sales.
Anyways, I wanted to be polite and answer the questions, but don't want to hurt the cause by spreading mis-information, so hopefully someone that knows for sure can chime in. I'd be very interested in buying something off-list from a private party if I can.
1 FFL dealer may have had their own agenda trying to make me purchase something brand new from them. The other FFL only deals with xfers, so I doubt it was in his interest to steer me wrong.
But in any case, I am not a lawyer so can't interpret all the legalese, so take it all with a grain of salt and do your own research. If you visit http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/ at the top they have a notice and it makes it look like private party is ok. If you download the summary of laws pdf on the left hand side (page 42 I believe) , it is a little confusing because it talks about the restrictions, and under exemptions it lists private party.
But this is what was explained to me:
CA treats all out of state private party as a local sale from the local FFL. That way they can charge you sales tax. So since it is now a local in state sale, you are bound by the certified handgun list. So they win two ways, one you can't find an easy bypass to their restriction, and two they can collect money from you. I can understand the first as a way to make sure you aren't getting past a loophole, but I totally disagree with the second. Since you are not paying the sales price to the FFL dealer, it should not be considered a taxable sale.
Now I did speak to a third FFL, but not specifically about handguns because I had already made my purchase and was no longer in the market, about rifles, and he did say that I would have to pay sales tax. So that may or may not be a confirmation that out of state sales are treated as in state sales.
Anyways, I wanted to be polite and answer the questions, but don't want to hurt the cause by spreading mis-information, so hopefully someone that knows for sure can chime in. I'd be very interested in buying something off-list from a private party if I can.
boldkharma
Member
The Beretta 92 is not going away anytime soon. The U.S. Military recently ordered many more for standard issue. It is and will be the standard issue for the Military for the foreseeable future(M9)
NavyLCDR
member
KegCommando,
The explanation that you were given does not make any sense. Any in state private party sales in California must go through an FFL as well. And the private party seller in state wouldn't be collecting sales tax either. Maybe their is something confusing in the sales tax/business laws vice the firearms laws because I don't see how a private party transfer is any different in the firearms laws based upon the residency of the source.
I think it's probably a case of just about anything else, though, especially when complicated laws like in CA are concerned, it's a matter of finding an FFL that has the same interpretation as you as far as what you want to do.
I was just hoping you weren't going to answer my question with, "Out of state private party transfers must go through an FFL and in state transfers don't"... I was going to have to correct that one
At least we can probably ALL agree on one point...CA law SUCKS!
Back to the original OP question... the 92FS will be around for a long, long time.
The explanation that you were given does not make any sense. Any in state private party sales in California must go through an FFL as well. And the private party seller in state wouldn't be collecting sales tax either. Maybe their is something confusing in the sales tax/business laws vice the firearms laws because I don't see how a private party transfer is any different in the firearms laws based upon the residency of the source.
I think it's probably a case of just about anything else, though, especially when complicated laws like in CA are concerned, it's a matter of finding an FFL that has the same interpretation as you as far as what you want to do.
I was just hoping you weren't going to answer my question with, "Out of state private party transfers must go through an FFL and in state transfers don't"... I was going to have to correct that one
At least we can probably ALL agree on one point...CA law SUCKS!
Back to the original OP question... the 92FS will be around for a long, long time.
- Status