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Beretta or Sig? San Fran PD Dumps Beretta

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by LAR-15, Dec 18, 2004.

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  1. LAR-15

    LAR-15 Member

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    Joe Rogers for KCBS-740 AM

    (KCBS) - As the San Francisco Police Dept. begins replacing 2,000 side arms this week, some members of the police commission have expressed worry about where the department’s old guns may eventually wind up.


    “From my personal point of view, there isn’t enough money in the world to compensate if the guns or any part thereof end up in the hands of the bad guys,” SF Police Commission president Louise Renne told KCBS reporter Larry Chiaroni.


    The department has discontinued use of its current Beretta pistols because of a problem with that model’s accuracy. By Thursday, some San Francisco police officers are expected to be carrying .40 caliber SIG-Sauers instead.


    The SFPD plans to return the old Berettas to the company which supplied the new guns in exchange for a $350,000 credit.


    Renne, who as a City Attourney took gun manufacturers to court on charges that they alledgedly supplied dealers who knowingly did business with criminals, said she wants to make sure that the department’s old guns do not wind up on the streets.


    “We believe that gun manufacturers were not careful in their sales, in that they did make sales where guns ended up on the street. What assurance do we have that this gun manufacturer is not going to make a subsequent sale to places where they could end up in the hands of the criminals?” Renne asked.


    “If there are no guarantees, then it would be my position that we forego the credit and otherwise dispose in some fashion of these guns,” Renne said.


    The new weapons will arrive in shipments of 200 at a time, so some police officials anticipate it may take as long as one year to switch completely to the SIG-Sauer.
     
  2. SiG Lady

    SiG Lady Member

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    What's good enough for the SiG Lady is...

    Did anyone there indicate which MODEL of Sig they preferred...?
     
  3. R.H. Lee

    R.H. Lee Member

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    Translation: Bad guys=anybody who is not law enforcement . :rolleyes:
     
  4. 10-Ring

    10-Ring Member

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    They still arm their LEOs in SF? :sarcasm: :evil:
     
  5. Dienekes

    Dienekes Member

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    Typical left coast arrogance. The twit police commissioner (attorney) is apparently willing to flush $350 K of taxpayers' money down the drain because of her "feelings".

    Pathetic.
     
  6. Campusninja

    Campusninja Member

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    Hmm.........
    I am no rocket scientist nor do I play one on TV but if the gun is inaccurate, wouldn't this be a benefit of some sort?






    But what do I know
     
  7. stv

    stv Member

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    Louise Renne made a name for herself suing gun manufacturers. She's now in charge of the (anti-cop) Police Commission. If she had her way, I believe she would arm SFPD only with harsh language and plastic flashlights.

    Side note: I haven't seen any PD with Sigs yet, but they did just start to change over. I'd like to get my hands on one of those 96Ds, but it remains to be seen what Sig will do with them.
     
  8. MrMurphy

    MrMurphy Member

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    I thought San Franscisco cops were only allowed plastic flashlights and tie-dye t-shirts, and had to sit there singing "Kumbayah" or the "Internationale" until the criminal committed suicide out of desperation......



    Long gone are the days of Dirty Harry.
     
  9. JAREDSHS

    JAREDSHS Member

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    Sanfranscisco

    :fire: We should all feel thankfull that we do not have to live in that city.
    The 11 city comissioners are gearing up to confiscate all handguns from their citizenry next November. If the measure passes, all citizens of SanFransisco will have 90 days to voluntarily turn in their handguns. see(www.NRAILA.org)
    I am glad I live in the hills of good old"trailer trash" TENNESSEE!!

    Dave Ginn
     
  10. SiG Lady

    SiG Lady Member

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    Headline: Population plummets in SFO...!

    Watch the emigration numbers increase if that thing passes.... :fire:
    It's an outrage. :cuss:

    Please understand that San Francisco wasn't always this way. It was a truly great place to be... quite some time ago.
     
  11. Tecolote

    Tecolote Member

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    Are they going with the DAK?
     
  12. GTKrockeTT

    GTKrockeTT Member

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    all i want to know is....where can i pick up some of those beretta trade-ins? :D
     
  13. nhhillbilly

    nhhillbilly Member

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    Why would any gun man. sell them guns when they are being sued. If the city sues don't sell them any firearms.

    I have a couple of Beretta 92F's and they are very accurate. I have never shot the 96.
     
  14. dsk

    dsk Member

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    That says it all.
     
  15. Mastrogiacomo

    Mastrogiacomo Member

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    Kind of stupid to waste tax payers' money. Who's the one that decided the Berettas weren't accurate? I have four -- and all hit the bullseye. Maybe they need to spend more time at the range and less at Dunkin Donuts....
     
  16. Tecolote

    Tecolote Member

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    How would spending more time at the range prevent keyholing?
     
  17. Jeff Timm

    Jeff Timm Member

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    I have never heard of a pistol caliber round, keyholeing out of a standard barrel. I suspect SFPD has been messing with "green ammo" or some such, or worse buying ammo from questionable sources.

    Geoff
    Who may not like the M-9, but heck, I've never had one keyhole on me!
     
  18. Island Beretta

    Island Beretta Member

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    what utter nonsense, blimey!!

    Beretta inaccurate, Sig an upgrade blah blah etc.. I guess Inspector Callahan was right!! :evil:
     
  19. mrapathy2000

    mrapathy2000 member

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    I bet they have a problem with the sigs being accurate. not because of the gun or caliber either though they will probably end up ditching 40S&W because its not accurate either :rolleyes:.
     
  20. cstreu1026

    cstreu1026 Member

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    I can honestly say that I have never heard of a Beretta not being acurate. I agree that maybe some of these officers should spend a little more time on the range. And this just another story that makes me darn glad I don't live in California. Ohio may not be great but atleast they are not trying to take my guns away.
     
  21. SouthpawShootr

    SouthpawShootr Member

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    Wouldn't it be interesting if all gun manufacturers and LE dealers refused to do business with localities that tried to sue them? Never happen, but couldn't hurt to fantasize. Maybe a $200 surcharge on each gun sold to LE agencies in these localities? Don't take me for an LE hater, I'm not. The only way you get these local officials to behave is to hit them in their pocketbooks. If they can't get new guns, pretty soon the police unions will raise hell. That alone should create enough political pressure to help matters.

    It appears that there is legal precedence for this sort of thing. There was a piece a while back where a judge upheld Ford's refusal to sell Crown Vics to a sheriff's dept in Florida that was suing Ford over some supposed (reall or not, I'm not interested in debating) defect. Had something to do with the gas tank, IIRC.

    My understanding is that keyholing is largely due to a damaged crown, commonly from dropping the damn gun. I doubt you would need to replace the barrel, all you'd need is an armorer with a little machine tool experience. I have had a number of Berettas and I've never encountered one that was inaccurate. Anybody know if these were 9mms or .40s?
     
  22. cstreu1026

    cstreu1026 Member

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    I say them the guns....... but figure in the cost of legal fees and settlements. It will eventually become too expensive to sue the gun makers and still buy weapons from them. I think SFPd would be keeping those Berettas if it was going to cost them $5000/gun to replace them becuase of their merritless lawsuit.
     
  23. Master Blaster

    Master Blaster Member

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    I have seen my berretta 92 INOX compact Keyhole. When it was brand new.

    I also know why, I was shooting lead ammunition that I reloaded out of it, berretta says not to shoot lead ammo in the manual, but I figured harcast 9mm would be OK. I was wrong, after about 20 rounds the bullets began hitting the target in profile. I removed the barrel and looked down it and saw shreads of lead hanging off the lands. When I cleaned it later I had strips of lead foil coming out of the barrel. So then I started using copper plated Berry's bullets or FMJ only and never did see the problem recurr.

    My guess is that their keyholing was caused by bad reloaded ammo with very soft bullet jackets or even lead!!!.

    Really gun mfgrs sell to retailers and wholesalers and they sell to ordinary people. :neener:

    What rock does this ninny live under??????
     
  24. Bart Noir

    Bart Noir Member

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    Anybody else think this is a twit-like statement? My experience with keyholing is that the bullet is a danger to anyone not standing behind the shooter. "Minorly affect" my tired keister!

    Bart Noir
     
  25. Motor-T

    Motor-T Member

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    Keyholing?
    Probably 10 years of copper fouling. I'd bet a 55 gallon drum of elbow grease would solve their "accuracy" problem. :confused:
     
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