Best 7.62 AK pistol for an eventual SBR?

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Mark-Smith

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I'm looking for a 7.62 AK pistol to eventually turn into a SBR with a reflex sight. Maybe even suppressed with a holo sight when my budget allows.

The price point is something I haven't figured out yet. As short as possible while still functioning well is the main thing that's driving my search. The mini Draco seemed to be the ideal solution, with an overall length around 18 to 19 inches, but it looks like they're not being imported and the prices on gunbroker have just gotten stupid at this point - $1,200+ for a what was originally a $400 AK.

The M92 PAP seems to be the next best thing, an inch or two longer than the mini Draco at 19" to 20" OAL and while the prices I've seen on gunbroker for completed auctions aren't great ($800 on average), it's still cheaper than the Draco with possibly better build quality.

However, I'm not sure if there's anything else out there I should be considering. Any recommendations?
 
The last arenal i seen was right around 1100, you'll probably have to take it to a Smith to get the barrel chopped and have the gas port opened up should bee around 200. The pap and draco are both Good guns and it shouldn't be too hard to get one in your hands under 700, i liked my draco over my pap though the pap did have a nicer finish. there's also the hell pup you can probably find fairly cheap though it doesn't get the best reviews.
 
The pap. Virgin underfolder rear trunion. Drill and attach underfolder.
Click to expand...

What about a side folder like this?

zMeLrLn.jpg

I'd like to put something I could get a decent cheek weld on / possibly telescopes a bit. Underfolders look a bit painful to use.
 
You cant put a underfolder on a pap because the placement of the serial number
 
You might consider a short AR instead. One of the major draws to AK-pattern rifles in the past has been they were significantly cheaper than AR15 rifles. If that's not the case, a short AR15 will have much better ergos, and be cheaper to modify with high-quality parts.

John
 
Recipe for a really nice SBR:


PAP 92

Form 1 in hand. Off to the engaver.

Then buy:

US Machinegun stock mount for Pap (attached under pistol grip, no drilling needed).

ARMS folding mount, available as a package with stock and mount from US Machinegun.

Stock of choice. I used a US Machinegun billet aluminum one.

Grind off the weld, unthread the muzzle nut, and add a nice flash hider. Or better off... a suppressor.

Spring and detent pin for the flash hider is available or can be made locally with ease.

Enjoy shooting it. I do!


See: http://www.usmachinegun.com/products.php?cat=72



" You cant put a underfolder on a pap because the placement of the serial number "

When you register a SBR with a Form 1, YOUR serial number which you engrave on the side, along with the rest of the info, becomes the SN of the firearm that *you have manufactured*. The old one is irrelevent. But the side folders are much better stocks to shoot.



Willie


.
 
This is a excellent choice for a couple hundred more no 922r issues and great fit and finish.
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Remember, when you put a stock on it it becomes a rifle, and thus subject to 922r. The fact that it was imported and sold as a pistol matters not.
 
My PAP's serial number is on the forward left area of the receiver; the newer imports have relocated their serial numbers after many had complained about the old location interfering with underfolder stock placement. Problem solved.
 
Mark-Smith said:
Maybe even suppressed with a holo sight when my budget allows.
Click to expand...

I'm no suppressor expert, but I think I've heard that short barrel plus rifle cartridge doesn't work well with suppressors. Suppressors often have minimum barrel requirements to ensure that the powder fully burns before the bullet enters the suppressor.

Ever seen the fireball on a video of an SBR being shot? That is powder burning outside the barrel after the bullet is gone. Again, no expert, but I think I've heard that this "explosion" happening inside the suppressor is bad for it.

Just something you might want to research and make sure it is possible/advisable before you are too invested and discover you can't do it.
 
Sam the link i gave was a model.thats already a rifle it just has like 6 inches of barrel after the threads.
 
Mark Smith

If you are sure about the eventual SBR conversion, why not get a factory built and tested one? I would like to see what reasons you have in mind.

If you excuse me, the AR pistols are not the best of the bunch. They are a Western aftermarket creation with strange nicknames like Krinkov. The SLR 106 UR by Arsenal is closer to the real world Russian SBR with a lovely nickname "little bitch". It has a naked muzzle amenable to threading. An AR based handgun is too big for a practical pistol, and too difficult to shoot accurately without at least a folder stock.
 
YZ said:
If you are sure about the eventual SBR conversion, why not get a factory built and tested one?
Click to expand...

Cost. I haven't seen one that is built on a short AK (under 21" OAL) for a price that's close to that of the donor AK pistol plus the fee to SBR it. If you are aware of any that are very close to the cost of the pistol +$200, please let me know :D

JShirley said:
You might consider a short AR instead
Click to expand...

The loss in velocity for 7.62 in a short barreled weapon is less than 5.56 / .223 (AR) or 5.45 (AK74). There's a great video from Gun Websites that covers this here: http://youtu.be/lbgAh9-sCDQ

The velocity breakdown was as follows:
Arsenal SGL21-94 full size AK (16" barrel) - 2,276 fps
Draco AK pistol (11.5" barrel) - 2,075 fps
Mini Draco AK pistol (7.75" barrel) - 1,940 fps

If you compare that to AR barrel lengths (figures from this post):

7.5" AR-15 barrel - 2,364 fps
10.5" AR-15 barrel - 2,755 fps
16" AR-15 barrel - 3,075 fps

That's a loss of 711 fps from 16" to 7.5". For the AK, it's a loss of 336 fps. With an AK, the losses aren't nearly as bad as they are for an AR in a short barreled rifle configuration.

Not to mention you have a noticeably larger round with the energy that comes with it. I'm sure there's a calculator out there somewhere that can figure out the joules for 7.62x39 vs 5.56 at a given velocity. The AK wins on that front.

And then there's the reliability and simplicity with an AK-based SBR. Not that many parts, tolerances are looser, works better under adverse conditions, etc. For this build, I want something that can take anything that gets thrown at it, not intending to have a safe queen here :D (or a range queen, for that matter).
 
Here is a photo of my mini-Draco SBR. I'm very happy with the way it turned out and really enjoy shooting it.

attachment.php


attachment.php


I was careful to mount the side folder so it doesn't interfere with the bolt when folded. I chose not to mount it to fold to the left side as I wanted a nice flat surface against my back when carrying it folded with the sling.

Unfortunately, unless a new batch comes in at near the previous price point, IMHO this ship has sailed at $1000+ for it as a pistol these days.

The PAP pistols should work about as well, although the barrels look a bit longer and the way the rear sight has been changed may reduce your optic mounting options.
 
What hinge did you use for the stock?
Click to expand...

Its the ACE folder hinge, from the same maker as the stock. I milled off the "pig's nose" so it was flat and drilled and tapped the rear trunnion for a couple of 10-24 screws and then drilled a third hole and drove in a roll pin after I made sure it wasn't interfering with the bolt when folded.
 
I'm debating whether to get the pushbutton style with an AR adapter or the AR stock ACE hinge. I'm planning on putting a Magpul AR stock on it either way, not sure if the adapter increases the length that much or not though.
 
Mine is the pushbutton hinge, although it may not be obvious, I think the AR adapter adds about 5/8" or so. I've so many rifles with MagPul stocks I wanted something different :)

I think the ACE website has all the dimensions so you can get the stock length option and spacers to make the length of pull you want.
 
The left side push button folder stock is supplied with some Arsenal models. It will unfortunately bump into the side console, but that can be solved by using a QD mount. Then you've got a rifle as portable as they get, with a ready to attach zeroed scope. Good luck, stay safe
 
The loss in velocity for 7.62 in a short barreled weapon is less than 5.56 / .223 (AR) or 5.45 (AK74).
Click to expand...

Sorry if I wasn't clear. I wasn't assuming you'd want a 5.56x45mm. My suggestion was about the platform.

John
 
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